Joe Friel Live Q&A: Heart Rate vs. Power, Communicating with Athletes, How Many Athletes to Coach

Endurance coaches present their questions to during this recording of a live Q&A with coach Joe Friel. This event covered many topics including heart rate, power, communication, and how many athletes a coach should take on.

Topics Discussed in this Q&A

In our first live Q&A session, Coach Joe Friel met with a select group of coaches to discuss a wide variety of questions. Topics covered include:

  • heart rate and power for aging athletes and indoor riding
  • the value and liability of starting a bike racing team
  • transitioning into a coaching career
  • how to review current sport science research
  • ways to increase and extend functional threshold power
  • transitioning athletes to a new coach
  • onboarding athletes and making changes to training
  • TrainingPeaks as a communication tool for coaches
  • building trust in the athlete-coach relationship
  • how often to communicate with your athletes
  • the ideal number of athletes for a coach to remain effective

The best coaches have the most contact with their athletes.

Coach Joe Friel

Resources

During the conversation, several great resources came up that we share for your follow-up.

Video Transcript

Unknown Speaker 0:06
Hello, everyone, for those that can hear me, thanks for joining, we’re gonna give people a second to get cameras up and running, make sure the audio works. So hang tight for a moment, and then we’ll get going.

Introduction

Okay, let’s get started. Um, just so that everybody knows this is being recorded, so that we can view it at a later date. Give people that heads up. My name is Rob pickles from fast talk labs. But more importantly, I am here with Joe Friel. He’s an author. He’s a coach. But most importantly, he’s a great guy. And he twisted our arm until we would let him have a conversation with people. So that’s what we’re here for today. It’s a conversation. And we’re really looking forward to questions that people have but also some answers that people can give to leverage the collective knowledge of everyone in this community. Before we do get to that, I just want to a couple announcements. The first is that module three of the craft of coaching has been released on the fast talk labs.com website. It features Dean Gorlick, Trevor Connor Alan cousins and Dr. Andy Kirkland, talking about approaches to mapping a training season. So we have an elite cyclists plan. We have a master’s cyclist who’s looking to podium, we have an aspiring elite triathlete. And we have an age group triathlete looking to go to longer distances. It’s a really, really great resource for coaches and just for athletes alike. Just so you know, coming up on April 8, we’re going to be releasing the fourth module of the craft of coaching. And that’s going to be focused on the business of coaching.

All of this everything that we’re doing with craft of coaching is built with the support. Of of you have the coaches that are contributing to this, if anybody ever sees a gap in education, a gap in knowledge, things that you need to improve your coaching, practice your knowledge, whatever it may be, feel free to reach out. In fact, we encourage you to reach out to us through info at fast talk labs comm so that we can get the insight on the information that you need. Joe is looking for that to include it in future modules. And we are too.

We also have our partners USA Cycling on the call. And they’re here because they’re very interested in supporting their coaches as well. So they’re here to listen to the conversation to gain some feedback and some insight from everybody that’s involved. I do want to announce that we have a q2 conversation coming up in partnership with USA Cycling. And that’s going to be on May 6, this is going to be the last of sort of the public conversations. The q3 and q4 will be limited to USA Cycling, registered coaches, specifically,

Q&A Ground Rules

some quick ground rules before we get going, just please be mindful of everyone else that’s on this call we have we have a fairly large group, try to keep microphones muted so that we’re not necessarily talking over anyone. How this is going to work is Joe and I will be on screen together at all times. We’re going to go through our pre submitted questions. When we do that, we’re going to bring somebody up onto screen. So there’ll be spotlighted. Their image will be up here with ours just like the Brady Bunch, you guys will be able to talk back and forth to Joe. If anyone else wants to get involved in that conversation, then raise your hand, you can raise your hand in zoom by going to the bottom menu bar. Right next to share screen, there’s a little thing that says reactions. In there, you’ll find the raise hand button, that’ll let our videographer know that you want to join in on that conversation either to ask follow up questions, or maybe to give some insight that you have yourself. So feel free to get your hand raised, and we’ll bring you into that conversation. We do want everybody to feel like they can contribute. This is not myself. This is not Joe, this is not somebody else, just talking to the crowd. This is going to be a conversation.

With that, I’m going to hand it over to Joe for his quick introduction. But I know that I’m excited to see everyone so so thank you very much. Thank you, Rob. I’m excited to see everybody also, this is always fun for me talking to a group of coaches for me is kind of like a holiday. It’s kind of like fun.

Joe Friel Introduction

This is something I started doing back in. Gosh, the 1970s I started coaching and I’ve seen myself as a coach ever since then.

I’ve had people ask me sometimes Are you a coach? Are you an author? Since I’ve written so many books? And I really can’t answer that question. I used to say, Well, I’m I’m a coach who writes books. But anymore since I don’t really coach any athletes anymore, I quit coaching a few years ago. So I could focus on things for coaches, that now I typically say, you know, I’m a, I’m an author who likes to coach but I’m not coaching anybody at all right now. But this project that Rob mentioned to you this craft coaching thing that we’re working on the which this is a part of, is, something has been in the back of my head for many years back in, probably spent 810 years ago, something like that. I started thinking one of the books I would like to write is a book for coaches, I’ve learned a lot, having been one of the first coaches to start doing this as private coaching thing, like you’re probably all doing. And so I had to learn along the way how to do things from scratch, because there was nobody to ask. I discovered in 1989, there was another coach in California, who I’d never heard of until then. And so I flew to California to spend a day talking to him. So I could talk to somebody who did the same stuff that I like to do. And we could share our stories on how we went about doing our craft.

And then from there on people, you started getting more and more people involved in coaching. And now there are 1000s of people in coaching in the US. So going from one or two back in 1980s, we now have exactly how many but if you look at cycling, and triathlon running, it says etc, there are 1000s and 1000s of coaches out there. So when I started talking about thinking about doing this as a book, this coaching craft of coaching idea,

Unknown Speaker 6:54
I ran into some problems. When I first started to talk to publishers, publishers weren’t too crazy about doing this, this was two years ago when the COVID thing was just getting going. And they were all in the process of changing how they operate their businesses. And that was having an impact on how they saw a project such as this. And they weren’t sure the book would have enough people enough people out there to buy it to make it worth their while. So I never found anybody who was interested in publishing the book. And then I get to talking to fast talk labs with Trevor Connor.

And we worked out an arrangement. And lo and behold, I finally was able to start working on this project. We’ve nailed it down to all the details, it’s going to take 18 months to finish this off is our projection. Right now about five months into it, I think. So we’ve got a long ways to go. But along the way, what I think will happen is we’ll see something, a lot of things come out, that will help you as coaches grow in your in your profession. So that’s where we are right now. What we’re gonna do is just throw the floor open to you guys to ask questions. And I’m going to try to answer but I need to let you know that I don’t know everything. My wife would certainly agree with that she already is aware of this really fully. But I can’t answer all questions. So I’m sure there are people who are who are having some experience with whatever the topic may be besides me, in this group of coaches, so if you have comments to make on this, feel free to make them.

Unknown Speaker 8:34
Just because I’ve stated my opinion on this or my have my thoughts on this doesn’t mean that that’s the only way to do it, or that I’m necessarily right. So feel free to step in at any time. And with that Robin and turn it back over to you and let you throw out the first question. Yeah, thanks, Joe. You know, we’re really excited to be working on the craft of coaching with you as well. It’s a long term project because you’re covering so many incredible topics that we’re just proud to be able to be involved in, bring the knowledge out to everyone. So real quick, before we get to the first question that’s going to come from Joe Hamilton. We I want you to know that in the chat, you can feel free to converse in there. If you have questions or comments or whatever else, you can keep that line active. You can also use the chat if you want to ask a question anonymously. Sometimes we run into things maybe where people ask a question about business and they feel a little embarrassed that it could be something that they don’t know, you can actually chat directly to Ryan Kohler. He won’t out who you are, but he’ll be able to get that question up here to us and keep it out of the public viewing chat. So let’s go ahead and get Joe Hamilton up here on the screen. Joe, I see you there. And Joe go for it. You can ask your question to Joe Friel.

You’re on mute.

Good. I think you’re muted, Jeff.

All right. We’re gonna give him one second, but then I actually have his question on here. Okay, you said his microphones not working. Oh, man. While while we’re working through that, Joe, do you mind if I ask your question? Quick thumbs up? Great Love it. There was there was actually two. So Joe’s first question was, what are the liabilities and return on investment by building a bike team? Joe, what are your thoughts there? That’s interesting comment. I’ve never even actually thought about doing that, Joe.

What are the liabilities of building a bike team?

Unknown Speaker 10:46
In all these years, I’ve been involved in coaching, I’ve never had anything like that crossed my mind. So I really haven’t given any thought. So I don’t think I could really be the guy who can tell you anything that’s positive, or detail oriented here. But I can just say this, that in the bigger picture, one thing that you need to do as a coach is to make your services known to the public, I’m afraid that’s what most of us don’t do, this may be the way for you to do it. I would talk with other coaches who drive this and see what you can learn from them. But you know, everybody’s got their own way of, of marketing their company. I had an I decided back in the 80s, how I was going to market my business. And I’ve stuck with that, through all these years, decades now. And it’s worked.

Unknown Speaker 11:33
I was able to bring in loss of clients, because of the way I did it, and maybe sponsored a team is the way that you pull this together. I haven’t experienced that. So I can’t really say I would certainly look for other people who’ve had who have tried this and see what their comments may be. But it’s certainly within the realm of things that a coach could be doing to make themselves better known within the market. So I would say, you know, search into, get into it, find out more about it, and make a decision based on what you found out. I wish I could help you but I don’t really have any experience with it.

Unknown Speaker 12:07
And Joe Hamilton, I think your mic might be working now. Can you test that real quick?

I was just asking, we have a pretty inactive or uncoordinated bike group in our area. And basically, we have probably, I would say 50 to 100 riders in our town, maybe. But they all ride on their own at different times. And I see him out on the road. And I’m like, why don’t we ride together or I see three go out on their own or to go out on their own. And I was wondering what the value was, there’s a there’s a couple things. One is there’s a fight team in town that I actually originally had started. And it was a nonprofit. And then I branched out to coaching. And I just thought because of a conflict of interest. It didn’t make sense to be part of that team anymore. So I’ve been out on my own. And I’ve been thinking about creating my own team, but I haven’t had any interest. And so I don’t know if I mean you got to pay a certain amount of money to get you know, your licenses and your insurances, particularly as always kind of what scares me a little bit. You know, if someone gets in a crash, do they come back and sue your company or something like that? So Right. That’s, that’s that that’s kind of where I was going with that question? Well, it’s a good question. And you’re certainly

Unknown Speaker 13:44
thinking the right way, making sure you’re doing you’re covering all your bases before you make any take any action. So keep it up. Thanks. And then the second question I had has to do with us athletes that are particularly master athletes, I’ve read all your books, and fast after 50 I’ve read twice because I like that book cuz I’m getting probably close to why I’m getting close to 50 scared.

Do you have research on max heart rate and masters athletes?

I was gonna ask you about the about the heart rate levels of masters athletes, what I’ve noticed is that as I’ve coaching masters athletes, particularly above, you know, mid 40s, and 50s, their heart rates go way down, when there’s doing their zone two and zone three work. And I can’t call that heart rate up, but they’re hitting their power numbers fine. And I’m wondering, I’ve read some across your book Fast After 50 where, you know, we’ve seen declines in like vo2max muscle fiber recruitment, and stuff like that as you age. I was wondering if you did any research or have any thoughts on you know, how, how does that have you seen that before and masters athletes where their heart rate decreases as they age and they just can’t get it up in those lower zones. Or vice versa. Maybe they can’t get them up even in the higher zone sometimes, and not be overtraining

Yeah, I understand your question. And you’re certainly right, this is something that does happen with athletes is that their their heart are lower at any event. Their rate is high. And this is good nor bad. It’s just the way it happens to people over the age. Mine didn’t happen. For sure. 78 years old now, I didn’t see my mind, not change until I get into my mid 70s. So we’ve been about that I’ve seen this happen. Earlier, the first happened, it was kind of scary, because I was used to seeing heart rates getting higher. Else. And that’s not happening now. But that’s just we’ve actually there’s lots of research shows, this is one thing we get access to see on unfortunately, a lot of in the early days, bleeds. And you’ve got other factors of playing the labs, Apple again, not at the model on our trainer, and X heart rate.

Not going to be so I tended to poopoo that whole idea of heart rates going going down. But then it’s fine. Start as I realize these guys are right. All says heart rates good as you get older, are finding there’s lots of studies done on that. And we’re seeing the same thing. heart rates are declining as you age. Yep. In fact, you know, what I was I’ve wrote a blog on this one relationship between brain power and heart rate your self for both metrics. And what I what I heard was that these are going to change the you may start out to see zone two and heart in zone two on the power very, very close, very close over black. But as the season progresses, it’s going to change, what’s going to happen is heart rate is about the same and power is gone in zones move apart.

And that would be something you see. And that’s something you want to see more power for the same heart rate, more output for the same input, which means your efficiency is improving. So that’s that’s to be expected. And I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t take it as a sign of anything wrong with the athlete at all. It’s just the way it happens. I coached one time. And this is long time ago, 25 years ago, I coached a rider who was in his 50s. And

the highest heart rate we ever saw for it from him. If I forgot the exact numbers never was in the low 150s with highest, whoever saw from him, you need a really good writer. And he went on to break the American record for his age group at 40k.

And his heart rate for the entire race was like, I don’t know, 143 or something like that. So it’s ridiculously low. At the same time, I was coaching a runner who was in his 50s. And this guy, first time ever took him to the track for an interval workout, he had his heart rate over 210. And, you know, so and it’s kind of scared me cuz I’ve never seen anybody get the heart rate that high, especially somebody in his 50s. And so I stopped the workout. And we began to study his heart rate and began to realize, you know, this is just the way it is to this guy. So it’s so individualized, you know, it’s kind of like talking about shoe size. We don’t we don’t all wear the same size shoes when we shouldn’t expect everybody to have the same heart rates either. So don’t take this as being necessarily bad side effect. I would say it’s not at all, I would take this simply as being normal. But that means puts more pressure on you to figure out how am I going to make sure if I’m using heart rate to determine how this athlete is doing, I’ve got to be able to look at numbers that are meaningful. So you’ve got to you’ve got to kind of bear in mind that his heart rate or her heart rates are gonna go down over the course of the next couple of years as you coach this athlete for any given power output, and you have to separate that. That’s an agent issue versus normal. In other words, as the blog I wrote about power and heart rate separating as the season progresses. So that’s kind of that a nutshell. I really can’t give you any great details on all this. It’s just the way it is.

Unknown Speaker 19:41
Yeah, Joe, can I ask for clarification and then after this question, John Harper, just so you know, we’re gonna head over to you for your question. But But Joe Hamilton, when you ask this question, you’re referring to something that you have seen across masters athletes in general, correct.

Unknown Speaker 20:00
This, this is not necessarily one athlete that you’ve seen, who maybe last week had heart rates that were just fine. And this week, you’re suddenly seeing heart rates that are reduced. Is that correct? Yeah, well, that that is correct. I’m looking mostly at athletes that I’ve run across a couple times, it’s not been consistent per se. It’s something that’s kind of shocking to me. And there isn’t a what the issue is, is that you and your training to heart rate in zone or two or three, getting that heart rate to be where it needs to be based on Joe Friel zones, the guy’s putting out a massive load power of zone three zone four power numbers.

Unknown Speaker 20:42
And then and so, you know, I try to train by the power numbers, but then I’m only hitting zone one or zone two recovery heart rate, maybe a zone one recovery heart rate, when he’s doing tempo work, is kind of filter that out. And Joe, that’s based on an age predicted max heart rate, or is that based on a max heart rate that you’ve observed during a workout? A threshold heart rate?

Threshold, a functional threshold? Heart rate?

Okay, so, okay, that makes sense. And and, you know, probably all it comes down to I think, I don’t know exactly, Joe, some kind of like guessing here, a lot of stuff. But, you know, I think largely what this comes down to is making sure you keep track of each of these athletes, is there more than one we’re talking about? You’re more than one athlete or just on just one right now. But I’ve run into it a couple different times, in different time spans, and it’s always been kind of perplexing for me. I understand. Yeah. So it’s, it’s probably a matter of with the older athletes, heart rates changing as they get older. I don’t know what an effect. I don’t know if anybody knows what the rate of change may be, you know, can we expect somebody’s heart rate as they get into their 50s to drop by three beats per minute, every three years? Or what do we can we expect? So we don’t know. That’s unknown information. So it really behooves you to kind of keep track of the athletes lactate threshold heart rate.

Unknown Speaker 22:13
And make sure you’ve got an accurate number for that athlete. And then realize as if the easiest thing would just be to read my blog on just go to my blog, Joe Friel turning calm, and click on topics and include the topic there as zones. And the first thing to pull up, is my article written about comparing heart rate and power zones for athletes? So that would be a starting place for this, I think, and then just watch their heart rates and see what happens over time. Awesome, thank you. Yeah, Jen, you can go ahead and unmute yourself. It looks like maybe you have a question to add on this. While you’re doing that, I want to make one comment, right? Where if anybody is seeing something like this, and there’s not necessarily a master’s athlete or another explanation as to why that heart rate could be low, you know, just make sure you’re looking at basic stuff like, say, carbohydrate availability, oftentimes, if somebody is totally glycogen depleted, or whatever, they’re going to see stuff like this. But as Joe is saying, we know that we’re going to see a decrease right in the heart rates that people are working at. And the equations tend to make it seem like it’s pretty linear, right? Like to 20 minus your age. I think that we all know from experience that you probably March pretty steady, and then you have a big drop at some point. And then you’re maybe you’re pretty steady again. So with that, Jen, what do you want to add to this or ask

Unknown Speaker 23:37
kind of on a related topic, not necessarily in older athletes, but I have noticed this sort of behavior with the heart rate on indoor cycling versus outdoor where they can’t get the heart rate up. They may be in zone four or five power, but their heart rate is zone one or two. And I was wondering if that may somehow be related, or what the reason for that is? I don’t know what the purpose or what the reason is, it happens. I just know that it happens. You’re right, it does happen.

Unknown Speaker 24:07
I would more than likely without knowing who we’re talking about or what exactly the situation is. Oh, point out that when you ride indoors, there’s an economy problem that you don’t experience on the road. So numbers are going to be different. Power numbers, heart rate numbers are going to be different, simply because they’re not as you’re not as economical.

Unknown Speaker 24:30
For example, when you’re riding on the road,

Unknown Speaker 24:34
there’s a little bit of a movement left to right on your bike, as you’re pedaling. When you’re indoors, the bike is locked in place so the bike doesn’t move at all, but your body has a little bit of movement left to right. So we’ve just changed how economical you are. Your body is, has learned to be on the road, with the bike moving slightly as a body stay steady. But now we’re in a situation where the bike stays steady and

Unknown Speaker 25:00
Buddy moves. And we’ve got other issues, too, there’s a momentum issue and what kind of trainer you’re talking about it, there’s a momentum issue if you some of the older trainers, especially when, when you on the road, the back wheel has momentum. And so it even when your pedals are at nine and 12, I’m sorry, at six and 12, you know, like this, the momentum of the back wheel continues to drive you forward. But indoors with some types of trainers, when your pedals are at six and 12, the back wheel starts to slow down, it’s just a little bit, not a lot, it’s a little bit, but that little bit changes your economy again. So numbers are going to be different. So I usually tell people, what you’ll probably find out is if you test that you have a lower indoor

Unknown Speaker 25:47
power functional threshold power, for example, perhaps a lower throat Functional Threshold heart rate also, then you have on the road. And if that whenever that what I typically tell people is if you have more than five points of difference between indoors and road, you need two sets of zones you need is indoor set of zones, and an outdoor citizens. If it within five, I wouldn’t mess with it. Quite honestly, it’s too much of a hassle. But at some point, if it does go beyond five, you got to say, well, I need to test the athlete to see what their zones are indoors versus outdoors.

Unknown Speaker 26:23
And I realize this is a tough situation, especially in the wintertime. And athletes are spending so much time indoors.

Unknown Speaker 26:29
But it’s just one of those things that you have to learn to cope with as a coach. Yeah, Joe, I think that that’s a great point. I know that when I was doing a lot of say lactate testing indoors on the trainer, even when I was doing treadmill stuff, I would recommend that people reestablish that zone for outside as well, because they definitely can be different. There are so many factors there thermoregulation economy, as you’re saying, you know, and different trainers, different inertias I don’t think that we can ever have just one practical advice, heart rates gonna be higher, or heart rates gonna be lower. For everybody. It’s different for every situation. So just establishing that second one is probably a great idea.

Unknown Speaker 27:08
Does anybody else want to move in on this topic? And if not, then let’s bring up John Harper.

What are your recommendations on transitioning to coaching?

Unknown Speaker 27:17
Right? Oh, this is John here from Madison, Wisconsin, cold and rainy here today. First, I’ll just say thank you so much to USA Cycling fast talk labs, and of course you Joe for, for putting on. And these really well thought through sessions, I just love like, continuously learning about this topic of athletic training and so on. And so I guess I have two questions, and the one is maybe nested within the other. So I am so I would like to transition into more coaching in terms of, you know, athletic coaching and Exercise Physiology. And, you know, that’s not necessarily my most recent profession. And so I guess, recommendations on making a transition into into that space. And then number two, given your connection with training peaks are there like specific tutorials, where somebody can like really kind of get into the nuts and bolts of and learn more quickly than just kind of poking around, hunt and peck sort of speak on their own with training peaks to really get like from a coach’s perspective, that is like the the utilizing that as a as a very powerful tool for coaching, you know, multiple sets of individuals. Thanks. Good questions. John, her first one as far as exercise physiology. I don’t know anything about your background. Are you ever do you have a background in something that’s biology or anything that’s related to exercise physiology? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I my Bachelor’s is in biochemistry and molecular biology and a minor in exercise physiology. And then I have other degrees PhD and so forth and other domains, but so it’s not like I’m not educated in this area. And, you know, combined with

Unknown Speaker 29:09
I guess, I’ve been racing since the mid 1980s. So I you know, I’m not like a spring chicken here.

Unknown Speaker 29:18
And I also love these sessions, because it’s also helping me keep the young whippersnappers at bay and so far, I’m, you know, I’m able to kind of hold my own here, so that’s good thing.

Unknown Speaker 29:31
So yeah, a lot of like, practical like, you know, been in like, whatever. 1500 races over my lifetime. So cool. Yeah, there’s, there’s so much here. You know,

Unknown Speaker 29:44
I get emails occasionally from people wanting to know how they can become a coach, and

Unknown Speaker 29:51
that knowing anything about their background is really a hard question to answer. But you’re already through so many aspects of this with the background.

Unknown Speaker 30:00
Exercise Physiology, etc, that this really should be something that

Unknown Speaker 30:07
you’re quite knowledgeable in, which is great for a coach. And again, that gives you

Unknown Speaker 30:12
a leg up on a lot of coaches, when you’ve got a background in the science of what it’s all about

Unknown Speaker 30:20
is the application side that we want to make sure that we’re, we’re well established on also. And you’re so you’re raising the appropriate question, which is, for example, Attorney picks, is there anything any way I can go about becoming more, more advanced in my knowledge of how to use training peaks? Unfortunately, there are I don’t, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything on training peaks or takes you step by step through the process of becoming, training bigs certified, if you will, except we have, we have classes we were putting on, called Training peaks University, before COVID hit. So we I was we were myself and two other members of the staff. Were traveling around the world, we were doing these everywhere,

Unknown Speaker 31:06
from Saudi Arabia to to Fort Worth talking about

Unknown Speaker 31:12
how do you how do you use turning peaks in coaching your athletes, and we’d go through all these things, but I don’t know. And we stopped doing that since the COVID thing yet. So we haven’t we haven’t done any at all since then. Which is a shame because I think they were quite valuable for people, we would typically set a limit of 25 coaches being enrolled in a class. And then that meant we were going to help 25 people, coaches become more knowledgeable of how to use all the data. My job was to talk about training in general, whereas the other people talked about how do you how do you what do you click on if you want to do such and such, that’s what they did. My job is? How do we apply this to training athletes. And so that that’s one of my primary concern, interest in training peaks, but I don’t know of any place on online for training peaks, where we do that where we take a step by step through the process of how to use turning takes to coach your athlete, because it’s such a gigantic topic. But all those subtopics are all there. You could click on, for example, how to train with power. And you could pull up, I don’t know how many 50 articles written on how to train with power in the training peaks blog. And you may find something there is very valuable for you. But you may know all of that. But there’s all these topics you could find. But there’s not one place you can go to that takes you down the list of 1234 Here things to learn about how to apply turning books, until we finally get back to the point of doing training piece universities, again, where we have actual face to face with with athletes in their home area. I’m afraid that’s probably not going to happen. Because when we started out with Attorney Biggs in 1999, it was so simple that I knew everything there was to know about it myself, I knew every click there were probably only half a dozen clicks. Now there are 600 clicks. And I really don’t know exactly all the details of how you use Trainingpeaks anymore, you got so much stuff. And there’s so many details that I can’t possibly know all of it. And I don’t think anybody knows all of it. So we always tried to bring in two experts to these presentations, who would talk about various aspects of using turning peaks to coach your athletes. And it was valuable stuff that people really years I could tell got a lot out of. But they’re they haven’t happened for some time. Now hopefully we’ll get them going again. And I wish I could point you someplace and says this is what you do. But really don’t have that place right now, you really can’t just go someplace and read about how to how to use turning picks with your clients. You just got to find out by by trial on Earth and read as much as you can. There are a lot of blogs or just just find some the sound appropriate for what you’d like to know more about. So you but you do think at some point that training peaks will re kind of establish that that university kind of thought that training peaks university and have these sessions. I think so we haven’t talked about this a couple, actually for about almost two years now because we’ve we’ve kind of come to inclusion, we’re not going to be doing this again for a while. And we’ve got other eggs, other things to take care of from our basket. So we’re pressing away on all the other stuff we’ve got going on. And this is kind of on the back burner right now until we know more about the world.

Unknown Speaker 34:38
I’m hoping to find out more of myself soon. I’m going flying to the UK next month. And I want to get a sense of what’s going on outside the US without just reading was the CDC is telling me on the internet. So if I can figure out for myself firsthand from talking to people what they’re experiencing in other places. I’m doing the same thing.

Unknown Speaker 35:00
Spain and Portugal. And so we’re trying to get I’m trying to gather as much information firsthand by visiting as I can, because I want to get these things going again. But I can’t tell you when I wish I knew the answer that question. Well, even if you have one in Boulder in that area, I’m happy to travel. I’m always looking for an excuse to get there. So I know you at least get one person attending.

Unknown Speaker 35:22
Thank you very much for your thank you very much. You bet. And we don’t have any plans right now for for Boulder, either. But that would be the first place we would do it. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 35:33
Joe, I just wanted to, sorry, or John Wrong, wrong guests in here. John, I just wanted to say, more than anything. I think that the attitude that you have you you’re showing excitement, you’re you’re a smart guy, you have some education, but you’re asking these questions, and you’re interested. And you understand that there are these deeper questions to be asking that more than anything is what’s important in being a coach. Right? I have met some amazing coaches that have so much knowledge, but they’ve never had formal education, because they were just inquisitive people that wanted to answer and ask and have all of this depth and wealth of knowledge. So you know, that’s my advice to everyone is just be inquisitive. The coaches that do the best, aren’t necessarily the coaches that follow something to a form, right. They’re the coaches that want to learn that they’re always changing, that they’re improving, and that they’re doing it because they love it, that passion really, I think plays out with your athletes and everything else. So, you know, you might feel if you’re a little bit lost, or you’re searching for answers. That’s okay. You’re exactly, you’re exactly where you need to be. Okay. Well, thanks. Good luck. Yeah, like I have all the time in the world. Now, I just retired. So it’s sort of like, this is going to be like my new area of passion and interest. So it’s just a matter of gaining a little bit of traction here. And then I’ll be, I’ll be off and running. Great. Dr. John I,

Unknown Speaker 37:00
back in 19, about 1980 81, something like that, I realized I had a I had a weakness in terms of the science of training, from my background in the 1960s. And 70s, wasn’t the science then. And so I decided that I was going to challenge myself to read

Unknown Speaker 37:19
abstracts research abstracts every day. And so I kept a stack of them on my desk, and I still to this day, do this, I’ve got a stack, I’m still. And every day when I get up, I pull the top abstract off the stack and read it. If there’s anything here I think is valuable that I could use. And I go find the study and read all the details. And if I still am impressed with what I can what I’ve learned from this a ride on a three by five card, which is what I started doing back in 19, early 1980s. So I’ve got now hundreds and hundreds of three by five cards, all categorized by topics. So that was my just as Rob was saying that was my

Unknown Speaker 37:57
attempt to inform myself so I can become more studious is just to be inquisitive, and find out what’s going on.

Unknown Speaker 38:07
No, no, that’s awesome. You know, just a like last quick comment on here. Here at fast talk, we use an online service called Read cube, R E, A, D, C, U B, E, that is a great way to organize research. If anybody is into that I know I have over 1000 papers in that it’s just a great way to keep everything organized. Without without doing it on on three by five cards.

Unknown Speaker 38:33
With with that, let’s um, let’s open it up. If anybody has any questions that they want to ask, then go ahead and raise your hand and we’ll call on someone. If we have a little bit of a pause there is somebody who submitted a question but they’re not in the meeting. So I might go ahead and ask theirs. But go ahead and get some hands raised if anybody wants to come on and in ASK JOE or anyone else a question.

Unknown Speaker 39:02
Okay, while we’re waiting for some people to get their questions ready, I am going to kick this over. This was a Paul had submitted this and unfortunately, Paul’s not on here. But he asked a question about polarized versus pyramidal training. And his question is this Joe? There is so much conflicting opinion and perhaps some research data about polarized versus pyramidal training, as in most things, answers are probably somewhat in the middle. Given these opinions, in your opinion, what is the best way to increase FTP? And then to extend FTP? I don’t quite know what he means by that. So you can answer that however you want.

What is the best way to increase FTP? Pyramidal training vs. polarized training

Unknown Speaker 39:44
Because a lot of headway,

Unknown Speaker 39:46
yeah. How to Increase FTP. Let’s just do that piece.

Unknown Speaker 39:50
There are so many things here. I wish there was one simple answer just say well do these intervals now they’ll they’ll take it up by 10 points, but quite often

Unknown Speaker 40:00
Honestly, that doesn’t exist, there isn’t one way to do this.

Unknown Speaker 40:03
One thing I learned very early on in coaching has always comes down to who we’re talking about. The answer always begins with it depends. In this case, it depends on who the athlete is, and what’s maybe holding them back. You know, there are three things that determine fitness, if you will.

Unknown Speaker 40:22
And your sports robic capacity threshold as a percentage of aerobic capacity, and economy these these are the big three in some place in there is more than likely not necessarily, but more than likely, the answer to the question of how to improve the FTP of the athlete is to make sure that whatever that thing is, it’s holding this bat athlete back gets fixed, if you will fix is kind of a vague term, you’re I know, but we’ve corrected, we’ve made sure this, this athlete became stronger, and one of these areas is holding them back. And if we do that, then everything begins to improve along and FTP is included in that it’s going along for the ride. And it doesn’t have but it doesn’t have to be those three, big three, you know, VO to max threshold and economy. It could be other stuff. It could be, could be diet, could be nutrition. The athletes just got a terrible diet, it could be. It could be support, family support. I’ve coached a guy one time who had potential great potential as an athlete, but his wife thought everything he was doing was stupid. And that was really hard for him to deal with. And Quetta had an impact on his training. We never achieved his goals never got even close to them, because I think it was just because his family was not his wife, in this case was not supportive. It could be something like sleep, maybe the athletes has got too much in their in his or her life, not getting enough sleep. And sleep is when fitness occurs. That’s when all the changes happens when the hormones are released. So consequently, if you’re only getting four hours of sleep at night, because you’re trying to fit so many things into your life during the day, that

Unknown Speaker 42:06
you know, FTP is going to suffer until you change the sleep thing. FTP is always going to be low.

Unknown Speaker 42:13
So it’s hard to be the equipment and the athlete just has very poor equipment.

Unknown Speaker 42:19
The bike is set up wrong. I mean, there’s there’s so many things here. One thing is I, I was asked once by an athlete, who was who was talking to me about perhaps becoming his coach was what was my philosophy of coaching? This is Gosh, this was like 3030 Some years ago, this guy asked me this question. It had never crossed my mind, what is my philosophy of coaching? I suspect most coaches don’t ever think about this.

Unknown Speaker 42:47
So I made up something in the moment, at that time, and then but he got me to thinking about it. And stress started actually thinking about this the point I came up with bounce philosophy. And what discovered was my philosophy was based on on my methodology. My methodology, which I had been using for years at that point was, the first thing I do with an athlete, when I start coaching them is find out what is holding this athlete back. That is the first thing I’ve got to figure out. I call these things let’s talk about that. The first of the F has got weaknesses. So if I’m trying to figure out the weaknesses, I want to make sure I’m getting the right weaknesses. So I look at it in terms of the athletes, race specific weaknesses. So let’s say the athlete has got a weakness in climbing

Unknown Speaker 43:34
just doesn’t find well at all. However, this athlete wants to do time trials, and they’re all flat course.

Unknown Speaker 43:41
It’s not a weakness. I mean, it’s a weakness, but it’s not an event specific weakness. The goal is to Time Trial not climbing in a road race type of event. So I know a weakness, but it’s not necessarily holding this athlete back I caught so the thing that’s holding this athlete back is something else. I call those things limiters in other words, events, specific weaknesses, I call it limiters, my role is to figure out what those things are for for each athlete, I coach, what are the limiters? Why can’t this athlete achieve their goal? There’s something holding them back. What is it? It’s kind of like being an engineer, this is where the engineers see their job is to is to repair things, fix things, get things going in the right direction. And that’s all I’m trying to do. In other words, I don’t want to just like try to fix everything in this athlete’s life, including your training and asleep and everything else. I want to narrow it down to what things are are the critical things and fix those things. If I can fix those things, they achieve their goal. And so everybody’s happy. So so there isn’t one thing that I would say is the answer to this question. It’s there’s just so many things but you have to that’s that’s your job as a coach, what is standing between this athlete and success?

Unknown Speaker 44:55
It’s not an easy question to answer, but you’ve got to figure that out. First of all, you just don’t start throwing

Unknown Speaker 45:00
spaghetti at the wall sees what see what sticks, figure out exactly what this athlete needs and then start working on that particular thing or those things. If you correct those things, then the athlete achieves their their goals. So my philosophy became that which is measured improves.

Unknown Speaker 45:20
So I figured out what the weaknesses were the the the limiters, the events, specific weaknesses, the limiters, and I started measuring those things. And I started talking with them about the athlete on a regular basis, we would talk about their limiters. And we would measure those things. Every time I got the opportunity that was sleep, I’m talking to the athlete, but how much sleep are you getting every night and they’re recording sleep every night. So I’m getting an affirmation, if it’s the VO two Max is not high enough, I’m looking at ways to improve their vo to maximum measuring metrics that have to do with VO two max.

Unknown Speaker 45:54
And so I’m always measuring things that have to do with limiters. So my philosophy game that which is measured improves. And the whole thing came back to I’ve got to figure out what there is just I just can’t say FTP is low. I’ve got to say, why is FTP low? And then try to figure that out? And I understand that’s not an easy question to answer. But that’s Nobody told you is gonna be easy to be a coach, either. It’s just the way it is. It’s not easy, trying to figure this stuff out, people are paying you to try to figure it out. So that’s how I do this. But it’s just a challenge as a coach, I know.

Unknown Speaker 46:30
Joe, I think that that is an incredibly insightful answer. And I think it really shows your experience, right? Because it can be easy to boil things down to this or that one or the other. And to make it very simple. Is it better to do polarized or pyramidal? One of those has to work. But as you’re saying, what’s the bigger picture? Maybe both of them could work if we remove these other limiters you know, in their life, and we improve those specific things they need? I think we see this all the time, say in in time trial bike fit. You know, when you go through the fads of oh, you know, the hands need to be higher than the elbows. And that’s better aerodynamics will maybe for some people, but not for everyone. But we want to we want to reduce it down to such a simple thing. And I love that you just didn’t even go there that you wouldn’t even like entertain polarized vers pyramidal, and that you really describe this big situation. So it, it was a great insight, insightful answer for sure. Thank you. Thank you. I again, always remember, the answer for every one of these questions starts with it depends. Usually, it depends on who we’re talking about. So that’s always the starting point. Yep.

Unknown Speaker 47:43
I’m going to open it up to questions. If anyone wants to raise their hand, go ahead and do that. We have had some questions come in directly to Ryan in the chat. Feel free to share yours in that manner. If nobody wants to come on camera and ask then I will ask the ones that were sent to Ryan.

How do you transition athletes who came from another coach?

Unknown Speaker 48:05
All right, we’re going to be shy. So from the chat to Ryan, let’s see this says, how much of a transition would you recommend when changing an athlete’s training? As a follow up to that? What considerations should I think of when starting with a new athlete that has maybe been doing too much training in the past? So how do you transition either between maybe types of training and also maybe somebody that was coached by someone else? Maybe they’re a little overtrained? How do you transition them? Joe?

Unknown Speaker 48:37
Let me start off with the second question first, which is, you know, the issue you bring up if they have another coach before they came to you, I would like to see if there’s one thing I would like to see happen in the coaching profession. That would resolve all these problems is that when someone an athlete changes coaches, the coach who is no longer going to be the coach should get in touch with the new coach and tell the coach what he knows, or she knows. Now, you need the athletes permission to do that. However, I think it’s I only know one coach that does that, who actually makes a point of contacting coaches. This is a woman coach when she loses one of her athletes to somebody else. She always contacts the other coach to see if she can help the transition. So so the athlete comes first. That’s the issue. It’s not the coach comes first. The athlete comes first. What can I do to help a new coach get up to speed with this athlete? Because it happens to every one of us. Every one of us is going to lose athletes to another coach at some point. I did. I’m sure all of you have also if you haven’t, you’re going to and we need to help each other. Just help each other find out what is holding this athlete back. So that’s the starting point is making sure we share information about the the athletes that we’re coaching

Unknown Speaker 50:00
They’re moving on to another coach, Rob tub. Take me back to the first question. I forgot what the initial part of it was. Yeah, certainly it’s it was how much of a transition would you recommend when changing an athlete’s training? So maybe that means if somebody wants to clarify, that’s fine. Maybe that means going from a high volume plan to more of an intensity plan? Or maybe they’re going from triathlon just to cycling, or you’re reducing their sports? Yeah, there’s lots of possibilities here.

Unknown Speaker 50:30
Very interesting question. I think it really comes down to what time of the year is it? And when is the event that they want you to prepare them for? Those are crucial questions. If the race, you know, it’s a priority race, and it’s like, eight weeks in the future, you’re pretty limited. But if it’s like, you know, if it’s November, and that race is not until April,

Unknown Speaker 50:56
you’ve got time to figure things out and do a much better job with the athletes. So really, it’s a timing issue as much as anything else. But it’s one of those key questions again, you know, what, what does this athlete need to achieve their goal? You’ve got to ask a lot of questions. And that’s why that’s why I suggest that we help each other. When a coach, and when an athlete changes, coaches help the coach the new coach, transition to this athlete, the athlete comes first. But somehow you got to figure this out. And so I can’t really tell you an answer, because the transition really just depends on

Unknown Speaker 51:32
if the race is eight weeks away the a priority races eight weeks away, you you only have hours to figure this out and get things going the right direction, you need to ask an awful lot of questions, review the athletes training logs,

Unknown Speaker 51:46
find out all you can about this athlete in a very short period of time and try to keep the ball rolling in the right direction. If you’ve got six months, until the next race, hey, let’s take some time. Let’s slow down, let’s just go back and work on base training for a while just let’s just build an aerobic base. In the meantime, figure out all you can about this athlete so that we can when it’s when it’s time to hit the ground running with workouts that are going to be appropriate for this athlete given their situation.

Unknown Speaker 52:17
Again, there is no single answer here. I wish I could tell you it’s six weeks or whatever it may be. But we really don’t know the answer that question. Yeah, certainly, for what it’s worth, just so everybody knows, we have about 10 minutes left in the call, we do have another question or two from the chat. So if we don’t have any hands raised, I’m probably just going to keep moving forward with those to finish out our time. What I will say on this particular topic, Joe, if you don’t mind is, as part of that conversation, like you were mentioning that’s really important to have if a new athlete is coming on. And you know, maybe they haven’t a priority race, that’s really too soon to have an impact. I think it’s good to have the conversation with the person and say, hey, where we are right now we can’t necessarily get you have to be perfect or peaked, or, or whatever for this event. And I typically try to default to what’s best for the bigger picture. Because I would love next year for that athlete to be in an even better place and to not sabotage that with some last ditch sort of studying. So to save for this event that’s coming up really quickly. But try to think about it more in the athletes overall development and nine times out of 10 It seems like the athlete is pretty good with that is sometimes you have the athlete that really just wants to go all in on this one event, you know, come hell or high water. And and that’s okay. Right, because you’re there to serve that athletes goals and to help them achieve them.

Unknown Speaker 53:40
Good point.

Unknown Speaker 53:42
Great, I’ll ask for hands real quick if we don’t have any hands raised and I’m going to go to our anonymously submitted chat through Ryan.

Unknown Speaker 53:54
Perfect, um,

How do you teach athletes to trust the training process?

Unknown Speaker 53:57
actually, I like I like these. There’s there’s two here right in front of me. Um, this one is great. I love it. How can we teach athletes to trust the process and trust themselves in training? I think I think this is huge, right? It everybody faces this, Joe, I hope. I hope you got an answer here. Yeah, I know. I know exactly what you’re talking about. Everybody does face this. I can certainly recall.

Unknown Speaker 54:23
coaching people who would ask why a lot. And when I first started coaching, it was kind of a nuisance. Because I knew the answer why is because this is what I said to do. I was kind of a autocratic coach and I eventually learned to be more democratic. And being a democratic coach means that you involve the athlete in the conversation. So the idea is they

Unknown Speaker 54:49
if you’re making decisions on how you’re going to train the athlete, the athlete should be involved in that conversation.

Unknown Speaker 54:56
So we’re gonna set up a training plan athlete. Here’s what I’m thinking

Unknown Speaker 55:00
What do you think? sort of stuff. It’s not just here’s, you know, you’re not like a dictator. And here’s the plan, follow this come hell or high water, you don’t want to follow this, go find another coach. That’s not the way to deal with an athlete. What you want to do is involve the athlete so you know, that the athlete is learning, why are you why are you thinking the way you’re thinking? And what have you learned from them, this has caused you to think that way. Because of this conversation, trust is ingrained in both of you, I come to trust the athlete, and the athlete comes to trust me, that is the key to good, good coaching is trust in one another. I talk about three in this coach is this craft of coaching project and working I talk about three things that we should be aiming for as coaches, the first thing is to be a good coach, which is what that is a subset of second thing is to be successful coach. And the third thing is be a happy coach. You can have two of these. But if you don’t have the third one, you’re lacking something you need all three of these. Part of that is being a good coach is including the athlete in the conversation. So you’re not just dictatorial, Lee, telling the athlete what they’re gonna do. The athlete understands why they’re doing what they’re doing, because you included them in the conversation, that that’s where it all begins. Is your relationship with the athlete?

Unknown Speaker 56:23
Yeah, I think that’s a great point. And that conversation is important. It’s a hard balance, though, isn’t it? Right? Because I have seen coaches that the athlete maybe bring something to the table. Oh, I read about this brand new workout, it was on fast talk labs, it’s a five by five minute workout. Can we do that? Um, you know, and sometimes coaches almost sort of cave to every suggestion or every thought from an athlete. I don’t know that, that builds trust. But also the opposite doesn’t either if you just stick to your guns, and you say no, this is this is the way it is, you know, when you’re in, you’re so rigid. I think that that can destroy trust as well. Right. So it’s a great balance in the middle ground. Right, Joe? Yeah, it’s that same point, you know, the athlete says, I want to do this workout, because everybody says it’s a great workout is going to solve all my problems.

Unknown Speaker 57:08
You say, Well recall why we came up with this decision to train the way we are. I mean, it’s not something you did. on your own. It’s not something you’re you’re you came up with off the top of your head, this is something that came out of a conversation, probably many conversations between you and the athlete, and became a part of your plan. So I think that’s really the starting point for this whole thing is building that trust, and doing things together. It’s a team effort. It’s not. It’s not just what I think, is what we think. Yeah. God to keep on this thread, and perhaps to close out the session today. Because it this one came through Ryan as well. But it’s it’s onpoint. For the topic, how frequently do you like to communicate with your athletes?

Unknown Speaker 57:54
Yeah, communicate is a, perhaps a bit of a vague word.

Unknown Speaker 58:00
You know, what I think should be done at minimum, if you talk about communication, is that I, I know what the athlete did that day, because the athlete tells me in some format, they, they for nothing else, they record in their training log, what they did, and I look at it, for example, in training peaks, I review their workout for the day. So every day, I’m seeing what they’re doing every day. That’s communication. I may also be giving feedback to the athlete and what they did today. You know, their athletes record their workout, they had a workout they’re supposed to do, they did it. And the athlete recorded their experience, whatever it may be, it may be numbers you’re talking about, maybe they’re how they felt during the workout, do all kinds of stuff. But then your responsibility as a coach is to absorb that information. And if you have more questions about why or whatever it may be, what, how you go back and you ask the athlete the question, so we start communication. It could just be from communications online,

Unknown Speaker 59:09
face to face communication, I would like to see happen frequently. Now, that may vary with the individual because of lifestyle stuff. I may be coaching somebody who’s in,

Unknown Speaker 59:22
you know, the other side of the world,

Unknown Speaker 59:25
in South Africa, and we’re several timezones apart, and so it becomes very difficult to have face to face conversations, or even talk on the telephone perhaps because of the distance between us because of lifestyles. And so I’ve got to figure out a way to get around that issue. How do we communicate? How do I communicate with the athlete? So I would say the minimum is every day, you’re having some sort of communication with the athlete may simply be reading and reacting to what you read. That’s communication.

Unknown Speaker 59:54
It’d be really nice. The best coaches have the most contact with their athlete, in my opinion.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:00
Coaches I know coaches who coach only face to face with their athletes. And they see the athletes on a daily basis. A lot of pro athletes are coached that way. They see the coach every day. And the coach everyday sees their face shakes, the athletes hand Pat’s him on the back and says, How’s it going? And the athlete responds, and you can tell by the tone of voice, what their answer really means. There’s a lot more here than just the words that are coming across. So that’s the beauty of face to face contact. But most of us don’t operate in that world anymore. At least I didn’t for many, you know, at first I did. But once my coaching business grew, I got I was always going to have a face to face contact with athletes on a daily basis. So heavy came down to communication of go ahead and be able to communicate with the athlete. That’s why training peaks came about is because of communication, I wanted to figure out a way that I communicate with my athletes. And so this is that’s what we came up with, as my solution to the problem. Because back in the 1990s, I was using fax machines, and I was using

Unknown Speaker 1:01:06
emails sent to the athlete and response coming back by emails.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:11
And it was just not working. And so we came up with turning pics as a way of solving the problem is just a way of communicating is all it is. So there’s lots of ways to communicate. The most important, the best one always is face to face, in person

Unknown Speaker 1:01:26
in the same breathing space, that’s best by far, that’s probably not going to happen very, very often in our in our coaching anymore. So do the next best job you can if that’s not possible, like having a zoom conference conference conference with the athlete on a regular basis, that’s not possible, do the next best thing. So I have this hierarchy of things you’d like to do, and try to stay as close as you can to the top of that hierarchy.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:50
Now, as a follow up to that Cynthia asked in the in the chat, Joe, um, how many athletes on average does a coach Coach and I’ll add to that, do you think that there comes a point where it be where the communication breaks down? Where maybe your coaching effectiveness reduces? Because there there are too many people? Have you found a sweet spot?

Unknown Speaker 1:02:13
Well, I found a spot that was very sweet when I first started. But my goal back in the 1970s, in order to pay the bills was to have eventually 82 clients. If I can get a two clients at 7995 a month, I can pay the bills. And so that became my goal and eventually achieved I think in 1992 or three I had 82 clients, you’re a monster now I was on my way to being a full time coach. That didn’t work. I would forget who people were I couldn’t keep up and all the details things were going on in their lives. I also see that Cynthia sent a comment about 25. Here. I think that’s actually probably on the high end. I usually recommend for people with depends on how you coach of course, there’s so many details I have the detail of your coaching athletes.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:02
But if you’re like most coaches 25 is kind of the upper limit for being able to keep track what’s going on with everybody.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:09
I eventually got down to coaching like about five or six. And that’s when I became the best coach possible.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:15
I was doing a great job with my athletes, but I didn’t have very many athletes. So.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:22
So it really is it’s a balancing act between how many people can you manage? How much income do you need? And how good a job are you doing and trying to maintain communication with your athletes? And so obviously, 25 is probably the upper limit, I you can probably go beyond that in some ways of coaching. There are coaches who don’t all do one on one coaching, to do group coaches for coaching, for example, sometimes, so there’s lots of variables here. But I would say for one on one coaching,

Unknown Speaker 1:03:53
especially long distance,

Unknown Speaker 1:03:56
somewhere around 25 is probably the upper limit.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:00
Yep. Yeah, I think a lot of people would agree with that.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:03
I hate to say it, but it has been an hour or maybe even a little bit more. So I think that we need to be wrapping up here. John Harper, I apologize, you You slipped a banger of a question into the chat, asking about gene expression and personalized training at the World Tour level. I think that’s much bigger than what we can cover in this. But what I will say is I think that’s a great topic maybe for us to cover on the on the fast talk podcast. We can maybe get into that a little bit more depth. So listen up there. I do also want to plug that fast talk podcast as well. Um, you know, Paul, you had asked that question about polarizing pyramidal. I’m sorry that you weren’t on the call. You know, during this that you had some tech issues. But everybody, Paul, you too can go back and listen to the recording to capture that. I will say though, Episode 210 of the fast talk pod that’s coming out in the next couple of weeks.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:00
We actually have a question in there about polarizing pyramidal training. So we’ll tackle that a little bit, specifically as well. So with this, I kind of want to close things out, I want to thank everybody for being here. We had some great questions. I’m glad that we got to see some faces on camera, and be able to talk back and forth with people. It’s absolutely terrific. It’s a big part of the reason that we’re all here. It’s why fast talk exists, because we just want to be able to share this information. And Joe, you know, was telling me before that, it’s why he is involved in coaching and education and everything else. So we’re gonna continue these Q and A’s every month, approximately the last Tuesday of the month, they will be focused primarily on the module that was released earlier in the month, the craft of coaching module. So the next q&a is going to be April 26, same time, same place. And we’d love to really be talking about the craft of coaching module four, that is on the business of coaching. We definitely had some questions on that here. But that module four is going to be released on April 8. The last announcement that I want to mention again, is just that that USA Cycling, q2 conversation is going to be on May 6. So we have a lot of opportunities for people to be getting involved to be hearing from Joe to be hearing from USA Cycling staff from from fast talk lab staff. And we really hope to be continuing these conversations. But Joe, any closing words from you before we say bye? No, this one I thank everybody for for coming out.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:36
It’s always fun to see people. So just talking to people on the telephone. So having seen your faces on the screen is is very rewarding. know there are real people out there talking to a set of just names and voices.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:51
Terrific. Well, hey, thanks, everybody. We really appreciate this hour, we’re looking forward to doing it again. And as I mentioned before, if anybody has any topics that they want to hear about in craft of coaching, be sure to email those to us at info at fast talk labs.com. And we would love to incorporate that into the craft of coaching moving forward to make sure that you’re all getting the information that you need to help you work with clients better run your business better, Coach better, trained better, whatever it may be. So thank you, thank you to everybody. We’re here for you and we really appreciate you

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