Potluck Discussion: Racing While Sick, Pro Tips for Riding in the Cold, and How to Rethink the Off Season

For this week’s potluck we discuss a host of questions, from getting sick during a target race, training in cold weather, and approaching the off season.

Welcome to another potluck conversation with Grant Holicky, Rob Pickels, Trevor Connor, and new host to the show, Griffin McMath. In these discussions, we pick topics that we find interesting and break them apart using a mix of science, humor, and our own experience.  

What do you do when you show up to your target event and get sick? 
This fall, Coach Connor arrived fit and ready for his big race of the season—The Tour of Tobago—and the night before the race he developed a sore throat. He decided to race, but it quickly turned into an infection that ultimately ruined the race for him. His questions to the team: should he have raced or should he have pulled the plug, and what should an athlete do in a situation like that?  

What are our “pro tips” on how to prepare for riding in the cold? 
If there’s one story most of us are going to tell our children, it’s that epically cold day where we went out on the bike and paid for it. But with a Canadian and two Upstate New Yorkers, if there’s one thing our crew is experienced with, it’s how to avoid that particularly frosty story. Coach Pickels asks everyone to share the tips and secrets they’ve learned over the years to stay warm on the bike.  

How do you approach the off season? 
Whether you are a seasoned professional or a recreational athlete just starting to get into the sport, at certain points during the year, you’re going to have to take a break—or, at the very least, deprioritize your training. Coach Holicky asks the team how they approach the off season both mentally and with their training.  

Get ready for another potluck and let’s make you fast! 

Episode Transcript

Trevor Connor  00:04

Welcome, I was trying to think of something kind of funny and humorous to destroy our intro and I’d have nothing. Rob?

Rob Pickels  00:10

It’s hard, right? Because we’ve all been in a meeting for like an hour and a half before this. And maybe this is going to be a very serious potluck episode. Guys stick to the outline.

Grant Holicky  00:19

I doubt it. And not with the way you guys were lighting me up in that meeting?

Trevor Connor  00:25

Well, you have to get it out of the way complimenting you. Yes.

Grant Holicky  00:28

Oh, complimented me once.

Griffin McMath  00:29

Well, exactly. keeping tabs so

Rob Pickels  00:32

that everybody knows there is an algorithm perhaps did we can complement grant once every 20th comments. And so there has to be 19 negatives and then a positive. And I think right now we’re at about 10 negatives, so I got 10 more to give you and then grant I’m going to make a grant how’s the show doing for

Trevor Connor  00:50

your self esteem? Well, you

Grant Holicky  00:51

know, it was probably too high to begin with. So just kind of gets it back to a standard place. I think. For a while there. I thought I was a good coach. Coach that I interact with

Rob Pickels  01:02

up that’s why we have to cut you down. You’re too good. Oh,

Trevor Connor  01:05

by the time we are done, you will be a mediocre coach. You’re on.

Rob Pickels  01:10

You’re done. Hey, potluck potluck

Trevor Connor  01:12


Rob Pickels  01:14

This is potluck season. Right?

Trevor Connor  01:15

And Griffin Welcome to potluck. Thank you. I’m

Griffin McMath  01:18

excited to be here.

Rob Pickels  01:19

No, I want to talk about food. I don’t want to talk about Christmas got a big,

Trevor Connor  01:22

big cup of coffee, tea or tea tea. Got the right spirit here.

Rob Pickels  01:26

I’m close enough I can see it.

Trevor Connor  01:29

For nearly two years fast doc Laboratories has brought you the craft of coaching with Joe Friel the ultimate resource to become a better, more successful and happier coach. We’ve bundled some of the most popular pieces of content from all 14 crafted coaching modules to reshare. And what we’re calling the craft of coaching with Joe Friel coach’s picks, which includes the star power panel featured experts like Dr. Stacey Sims, Dr. Andy Kirkland, Jim Miller, Victoria Brumfield and Jim Ruppert, this incredible library will provide a lasting legacy and guiding life for endurance coaches for many years to come. Check out the craft of coaching with Joe Friel coach’s choice at fast talk labs.com. So we got questions. We are questions, we have answers, we got answers that will wait and see. Okay, well, we’re gonna go out of order here because I have a question. And it’s not my standard training question. But it is a question that I think everybody faces at some point that I know my answer to it every single time is absolutely the wrong answer. So I’m going to throw it to you guys. But let me paint the picture. Because I just had this experience. I was preparing for my big race Tobago, I was on the best form I had been on in a couple of years, I was getting a fib under control. I was excited. I invested a lot of money in this race. I thought it was going to go there and perform really well. And the day before the race I went out for my race prep ride you know, I could tell I was feeling a little off but I was thinking well he just arrived in really hot weather so that’s probably what’s going on went out for what I thought was a pretty hard ride and went wow, I must have averaged like 220 to 30 Watts and looked at my power meter and it was 130 Watts and I went okay my power meter is not calibrated.

Rob Pickels  03:18

So always the answer and just so you know it is always

Trevor Connor  03:22

ignored that but as I’m getting towards dinner, I start getting a sore throat and again, I’m sitting there going that’s just the weather. And was an interesting night you called me that night. I did. And Griffin I had a good talk. And then I tried to go to bed and went I feel awful and didn’t sleep that night but still tried to convince myself things were okay I got on the bike the next day, went to the race, survived about an hour of the race and then barely pedaled back to the hotel. The next day I’m like well I’m gonna be fine now and I took lots of naps and everything else and actually finished that stage but about an hour in I just tanked I got popped and finish way back. The third day which was the credit I just skipped because the last day was my big day and it’s the super hard five hour race and tried to convince myself I was healthy for it. We were riding out to it. I was feeling pretty good. felt strong going out tried to lead up the first climb to convince myself I’m doing well and then exploded got popped on the flats road to the other end of the island where you hit the big climbs got over the first climb but had to walk half of it nice, got to the second climb, somehow got over it and was still convincing myself. I’m going to finish this I’m going to start feeling better. That third climb might have been the worst climb of my life. I absolutely was dying somehow got over it somehow finished the descent thing got off my bike and got in the car. So that was a huge disappoint. But because I had really cared about that race. So here’s my question. What do you do when you have a target event? And that happens, you get sick. Grant,

Rob Pickels  05:11

before this episode, we were talking about a local cyclocross race. And I don’t know that that’s on the same level that Trevor is talking about right now is something that we do need to address is the fact that Trevor invested so much time, money, effort, travel, so on and so forth. But I think a great place to start and just an objective place is you and your past situation where there was a local cyclocross race, and you weren’t feeling so hot before it.

Grant Holicky  05:36

Yeah, no, I had a very similar situation. Last week, on Friday, I spent the night the day in bed had a fever. Normally, I would have just ignored it, because I would have had too much to do. But I just had a pretty easy day. So I like actually gave into being sick. And I wasn’t going to go raise the next day, the local race, and my son was going out for his first race. And he goes, Well, Dad’s not going to do it. He said, we’re going to do it together, so I’m not going to do it. So I put on my kit and sucked it up and went out and did the race with the expectation that was gonna feel pretty awful. And so I think from my point of view, there’s something really important in this and the piece of that puzzle is that it’s so easy to stand there and just say, I have to convince myself that I’m going to be alright, I have to stay positive and just be positive, no matter what this is going to work out, this is going to work out, this didn’t work out. From a mental strength point of view, that’s the worst thing you can possibly do. Because what ends up happening is you sit there and you’re giving yourself all this positivity, that deep down, you know, is wrong. And eventually you’re faced with the fact that it’s wrong. And your brain goes, See, I knew I was sick, it undermines you. Yeah, it really can create a problem. Instead, I think the approach that has to be made is, you know, I came all this way, do I really want to sit in a hotel room for four days and not participate, not enjoy the island not enjoy what I’m doing? To me, I think the advice I would be given an athlete is your second, okay? What can you still pull out of this experience now that you can feel as a positive and admit that you’re sick, you’re not going to feel your best. And then you may give yourself an opportunity to surprise yourself just that little bit. And that feeds some positivity on top of itself. Instead of this scenario, where we’re going to be feeding negativity on top of itself.

Trevor Connor  07:28

That’s a really important thing, because I can tell you the whole race, I was deluding myself. I was like, Oh, this is just a little just the race. It’ll be 24 out. Well, we acknowledge my general delusions on another episode, but I was convinced myself with just a little 24 hour cold and I could ride through this. It actually and I feel horrible for the person sitting beside me. Because the day after the race, I woke up and I went, well, crap. Now I’m feeling fine. And then I got on the plane, and it was a six hour flight. Yeah. And on that plane trip, I had the realization of, oh, I’m really sick. Yeah. And I was coughing the whole flight. And you could see the guy beside me looking at me, rightfully so going, what the hell and I didn’t even think to bring a mask because I didn’t think I was sick until now.

Grant Holicky  08:14

Right? Right. So I think it’s easy to get in that place where you’re just like, No, No, I’m okay. I’m okay. I’m okay. I’m okay. And we make some poor choices, even if it’s as simple as the mask. Because we’re convincing ourselves, we’re okay. You said

Griffin McMath  08:26

something earlier that that is the worst thing to do. And I think what you also drew attention to was the second you deny the absolute reality of the situation, your baseline, immediately moving forward with that feedback loop between your mind your body, your performance, becomes no longer reliable to yourself, right. And so I think that’s really important to understand is, we’re acknowledging a baseline reality, we’re calling it what it is. And then from there, this feedback loop has a better relationship with the athlete or they have a better relationship with our baseline to adjust, to modify to adjust expectations to regulate their internal talk. But if we deny that baseline right away, then how is anything else after that trustworthy, right?

Grant Holicky  09:12

So what we do right away is we’re saying, Okay, I’m supposed to be normal me, and everything’s graded or judged against normal me, if you can go in there and say, Okay, maybe I’m 80% of me. Or maybe I’m some version of me. I don’t know what that version is, but I’m not my best and that’s okay. So what can I do? At not my best and still just get something out of this? And so, you know, in that race at Belmont, I had a couple of people look at me and go, Man, you look miserable. And I say, you’re right, like now, I wasn’t really feeling that good. And that’s probably why I was miserable. And then I had other people say to me, man, you look like you’re having a blast, because there were parts of that race that I was having an absolute blast, right times I felt awful physically. I was still actually enjoying the process and enjoying What I was doing, I was just like, Man, this kind of sucks, because we’re going up the stairs, and I’m normally really good at this. And God, it just feels bad. I think that

Rob Pickels  10:07

this switch and mindset is really important, right? Because ultimately that defines what success is right? You know, Trevor, in your situation, your race, you didn’t have that switch in mindset. And it sounds like on that longest hardest stage, you tried to approach it with the same results sort of driven mindset that you would normally do and you attack, you’re leading up a climb. And maybe that’s what undermined you for the rest of the race, right? Where if you had had that switch and recognized and said, Yeah, I am not at my best today, I need to change my tactics, I still want to be successful. I think even if that success is still performance, we had a conversation with keel reinen, where he was like, I’ve done the best in races, I had the worst legs in because I changed how I went about the race and I didn’t attack and I sat in, and ultimately, that led to my success, right? He was still successful in a performance standpoint, it doesn’t mean you have to go back to this fluffy process, you know, find the positive in anything thing that grant loves to do. You can still have success on the performance side. But you have to recognize the situation you’re in holding back on those climbs, not putting in the effort could have led to you being more successful, even if at that is just finishing the stage. Sure.

Trevor Connor  11:23

In this particular case, with how brutal that final stages, it is still the hardest single day race I’ve ever done. Looking back, there was no way I was finishing it. But I think you’re right, I could have approached it a little differently.

Griffin McMath  11:36

I think what’s interesting is none of you have given a concrete answer to the original question, which just says so much about the fact it was

Rob Pickels  11:44

luck for you.

Griffin McMath  11:48

Write this out with me for a second. Trevor talked about a terrible racing experience being sick, and then says what do you do in that instance? And none of you said, Oh, well, you just don’t race or you don’t whatever. The only time that this came up, and I’m plotting this I can there’s a way around. I’m making here. But like 10 minutes later, you said, Well, maybe if you have a fever, yeah, but everything else was about just adjusting mindset, adjusting expectations of what you’re getting out of it and how you’re approaching and then allowing yourself to potentially be surprised once you have done that. So my one is how cool that’s says so much about the fact of what you do specifically, but to our there are maybe a few, like absolute lines, we should be

Trevor Connor  12:35

no thank you. And I’m just gonna add one other thing to that conversation, which is another thing nobody raised that I actually felt guilty about is, I was sick, I was contagious. Where do you ride in into peloton, people who like to face this, but bodily fluids get around? Was I being irresponsible as well going in the race? Well,

Rob Pickels  12:55

now that you bring it up?

Trevor Connor  12:58

So yeah, that’s the question, should I or shouldn’t I have? Yeah,

Grant Holicky  13:01

you know, this isn’t the greatest place. It depends. Now. This isn’t the greatest place for me, because I don’t want to give a concrete. And the reason I don’t is because the time the money and the effort you put into getting to that race, I don’t want to turn to somebody and say, No, you shouldn’t. If you have a fever, you shouldn’t race based on everything that I’ve been told by people far smarter than me. If you have a fever, don’t race, if you’ve got stuff coming out all over the place, and you’re snorting and spitting in all over the people around you. Yeah, you probably ought to think about that before you participate in the race. But if you’re in that place where nothing’s coming out yet, I mean, I don’t know

Rob Pickels  13:41

another general recommendation to that I’ve heard is that if the symptoms are above the neck, that you’re good to go. And if they’re below the neck, that physically in terms of your just overall bodily health. Yeah, you should probably hold Yeah.

Grant Holicky  13:54

Because you can do more damage, right? If you if that’s where you can get to pneumonia, or you can go down that road of walking.

Rob Pickels  14:00

Is it? Is it worth it, though? It’s sometimes Yeah, putting yourself in that position where you’re running the risk of making it worse, but taking an opportunity.

Grant Holicky  14:08

Absolutely. Absolutely. When we go back to the example you were making about an athlete trying to make a team or trying to make trials. So I have told many a 50 freestyle, this is a 22nd race. I’m coughing like crazy, don’t breathe, and not in the point of like, you have to do this just in that point of listen, understand what you’re being asked to do here. And maybe you can do this, despite the fact that you feel not so good. And sometimes that works. And sometimes that doesn’t work. But most of the time, I don’t know that I’ve ever had an athlete come back to me afterwards and say, I wish I hadn’t tried

Griffin McMath  14:46

to other athletes get ticked off when someone’s next to them super sick.

Grant Holicky  14:50

I don’t I don’t have to think about it, to be completely honest. But

Trevor Connor  14:53

nobody my team was actually annoyed with me that didn’t raise their day, even though they knew I was sick.

Rob Pickels  14:58

I wouldn’t be concerned In and outdoors? Yeah, yeah, now we’re not talking about you being on the team boss item, maybe you shouldn’t be eating dinner with everybody, things that just

Trevor Connor  15:10

didn’t go the team meetings I ate by myself that I was careful about. But I

Rob Pickels  15:15

mean, if I was writing behind you, and I was a little concerned that you were hacking up along, past your slow ass, you know, that’s all beep Sorry, I’ll post beat my,

Grant Holicky  15:27

you’re gonna get dropped soon. And now, so it really wouldn’t matter.

Trevor Connor  15:29

But I will give you my answer. In retrospect, when I went to that first day and saw how bad I felt, I don’t regret going to the first day, I should have pulled the plug there. And maybe seeing if I just took two complete days off, if I could have resurrected the final day. But I think going into the second day, when I knew I still wasn’t feeling well. And finishing the whole day was a mistake.

Rob Pickels  15:52

But all of this is about being clear with what you’re trying to achieve and to accomplish, right. And, you know, Grant, you just have the conversation of, hey, if you’re feeling sick, you can still get out there. It’s worth the risk. I think that that’s appropriate and amazing advice for people who are trying to be top performers who have something writing and that was the context in which, but that is not necessarily the right recommendation. If you’re in the middle of your local cyclocross season and state championships is two weeks away, it may be today you need to pull back because that is the emphasis right. And in your situation, Trevor, you, and you’ve talked about this before that fifth day, if I remember correctly, is the big one. It’s the one that you’re geared up towards your training was a long that. It may be as you’re saying, Now, the correct decision should have been Hey, ultimately, I wasn’t focused on the whole week of racing, I was really focused on that fifth day. And you should have aligned your actions maybe around that, because that’s what success is. Absolutely.

Trevor Connor  16:50

The last thing I’ll point out, and then we’ll shift to the next question is, this was end of the season. So this was okay. But I was sick, really sick for three weeks after that. And I’m certain trying to race through it. Added a week or two. Yeah, do that. Had I done that in the middle of the season that could have ended my season?

Grant Holicky  17:10

Now? I think we should probably revisit the subject at some point. And I think we should bring on a doctor because there are a bunch of people listening right now that are going Why does this always happen? Why do I always get sick when I rest for my big event? Oh, I do. I always love right after the season is over?

Griffin McMath  17:30

Yeah. I would love to revisit that in an episode because there’s actually a few different takes to that. And you have a few different types of people, people who get sick right before people who succumb during and then people who, after the big event has finished it takes a couple of days and in their body and mind catch up. And then it’s like their body allows them to

Rob Pickels  17:50

I know across racer who multiple streak of national championships, who said every year without fail a sinus infection and they were always finishing antibiotics the week that they were going to cross nationals every year. Yep,

Trevor Connor  18:05

I can tell you why it happened to me. You’ll get a good laugh out of this. Okay. So here was my lead into Tobago. I flew out to Philadelphia. I spent two days walking in excellent. I love these looks. Brad’s face. So said Thursday, Friday walk in and Expo. Then Friday drove five hours up to Ithaca, New York. spent the weekend there’s your problem right there. Yes. Spent that weekend in the

Grant Holicky  18:29

hospital. Why were you in the hospital visiting a friend? Oh, okay. Okay. But I was in a hospital important context.

Trevor Connor  18:38

This Sunday night, I went to bed at 11. I got up at 330 I drove five hours down to New York City. Yeah. Got a plane for six hours down to Tobago. I was. This is the race prep you don’t ever do. Yeah,

Grant Holicky  18:55

there’s part of that. Here’s your sign. Yeah, we’ll cover that episode. At some point. I’d

Griffin McMath  18:59

love to do that. Yeah, that’d be fun.

Rob Pickels  19:03

November, the air is cursed. The leaves are falling and I get to take a break from riding my bike. Now is a great time of year to rest and reflect on the past season. Visit fast talk labs and take a look at our pathways on recovery and data analysis. These two in depth guides can help you get the most from your offseason See more at Bastok labs.com/pathways.

Trevor Connor  19:32

Who’s cautious next,

Rob Pickels  19:33

Robert Do you know what’s cold outside? It’s cool. Oh the ground as we speak right now foot

Trevor Connor  19:39

read baby.

Grant Holicky  19:41

It’s cool down.

Griffin McMath  19:42

Sorry. You’re singing adds so much to my life when we record

Grant Holicky  19:47

it should yeah, I’m tremendously bad at it.

Trevor Connor  19:49

I wasn’t gonna say it. I’m just gonna compliment grab today.

Rob Pickels  19:52

I can’t even

Grant Holicky  19:54

can’t even okay, I bet you can.

Rob Pickels  19:56

Hey, guys, did you know that it’s cold outside? It’s a bit chilly. Wait, I’m starting my throw all over again. Just so you know, man.

Trevor Connor  20:02

Yeah, it’s cold out there. Rob. How cold is it?

Rob Pickels  20:06

It’s so cold, Trevor, that as I was writing last night, I came up with my question for today. What Pro Tips Do you guys have that aren’t the standard cold weather recommendations? Right? Everybody knows you should dress in layers. You should wear synthetic or wool and not cotton. People know those things? What have you learned over the years that other people might not know that help you deal with writing or running or activities in the cold weather?

Trevor Connor  20:37

This is like the question for me. Yeah, I was gonna say we gotta turn to the Canadian. I’m from Canada. I’ve lived in the Pacific Northwest where it’s 40 degrees and raining every single day,

Rob Pickels  20:47

which is about as cold as it gets. I mean, 40 in the morning is frigid.

Grant Holicky  20:51

is far worse than 14. Oh, yes.

Trevor Connor  20:54

Absolutely, though. I I have done a six hour ride when it was negative 20. That’s

Grant Holicky  21:00

just stupid. What? Why was that Celsius or Fahrenheit?

Trevor Connor  21:03

The actually the same? That’s right. That’s why I didn’t specify. Oh, Trevor. I tried to be so nice. All right, number one, this is a new suggestion that I’m going to offer heated clothing, battery operated clothing. It works. get

Rob Pickels  21:27

heated socks, battery operated clothing.

Trevor Connor  21:31

I use the I think it’s lens Zyme. They are amazing. They were a game changer. Nice. That is number one. And I also have a heated vest. It is fantastic. Heated Gloves. I sometimes use they don’t work as well. I started

Rob Pickels  21:45

making this stuff for Perla zoom, and it never came to market and is breaking my heart right now hearing you say all this.

Griffin McMath  21:51

I mean he did. But you have to be careful to not sweat. Because the second that you have moisture,

Trevor Connor  21:57

they can handle the sweat. It just they’re fine. As wicked

Rob Pickels  22:00

away you’re talking about two different things. You’re saying from an electronic standpoint, you’re saying from an if you’re wet, you’re cold standpoint, right?

Griffin McMath  22:06

Yeah, but I guess if the battery doesn’t run out, you’re

Trevor Connor  22:08

hot. So the first time I use the socks, I was like these are broken. I’m not feeling any heat at all, you know, and I only had a half a charge in the battery. So like three hours into the ride. The battery went dead. And also my feet got really cold. And I went oh, they do work. They just keep your room temperature. And

Rob Pickels  22:26

that’s you never feel hot. You just don’t feel cold. Okay, great. But

Griffin McMath  22:30

unless the battery dies, and then you feel in your car. Yeah. So

Rob Pickels  22:34

heated clothing. Yeah. What’s your second tip, Trevor?

Trevor Connor  22:37

Really good booties.

Rob Pickels  22:39

Okay, really like everybody

Trevor Connor  22:40

gets these thin booties because it’s gotta be arrow. And you know, I can’t. It’s winter. You’re not trying to go fast. Get the giant neoprene booties put them on. And I also put toe warmers on my shoes underneath the boots. Oh,

Rob Pickels  22:55

you’re a jerk that was mine. Sorry, toe warmers. And in my opinion, you should go with handwarmer because there’s even more of the iron in there. They don’t go inside your shoes. They go above your shoe but underneath the booty, because you can’t possibly shove another thing into your shoe and still have it fit appropriately without cutting off circulation. So that’s

Trevor Connor  23:17

another really key one is don’t clap your shoes down. You cut off blood flow. So I actually in the winter, put mountain bike pedals on my bike and I use mountain bike shoes because they’re looser. They’re thicker, they’re warmer. The road shoes are not designed to be warm.

Rob Pickels  23:33

Okay, awesome. That’s one was that three three.

Trevor Connor  23:37

Let me keep going. No, I’m gonna go grant

Grant Holicky  23:40

now I got a couple. One is get yourself a metal water bottle. An insulated metal water bottle bill makes them they’re fantastic insulated, insulated, not just metal, not just metal insulated metal water bottle, hot tea, hot tea hot anything. Hot water, just steaming hot water. It’s amazing what a difference couple mouthfuls of warm hot water do from the inside out. But that’s not going to last right you put that in a regular plastic water bottle. It’s cold super fast. Tastes like crap because you taste the plastic in the water bottle. And it really is worth the insulated water bottles. I’m a big fan

Rob Pickels  24:21

and this seems worth it both from a warming you from the inside out but also from just a hydration standpoint right? And granted, maybe you don’t need to hydrate as much in the cold because you’re not sweating as much but I know I will actively avoid drinking because that water bottle is usually frigid and it’s an unpleasant experience right so

Trevor Connor  24:39

you’re like me and you go out and really cold days sometimes water bottles for Yes Yeah, no, no, I have done long rides where I didn’t take a single drink because I had frozen water bottles. insulated bottle

Grant Holicky  24:50

kit. Yeah, those are really nice. The other thing is we used to do this a ton when I was a kid because growing up in almost Canada, upstate New York, you get that we would double layer are gloves. So the little silk gloves and then a big roomy glove over the top of that glove. I think one of the things that you kind of alluded to with the don’t do the tight booties, I think everybody kind of goes down that road. Don’t be afraid to do some roomy nests in the glove some because that heat can build up within that insulation piece and keep the fingers a little bit warm. If it’s really tight in there. Sometimes you’re constricting the Thinsulate or whatever is in there where it doesn’t work quite as well. But you’re also listen the whole reason you can get in like do the sauna into the frozen lake thing is if you sit still you warm the water around you and that water stays the temperature of your body and insulate you. The same thing can happen in the gloves if you’re going to warm a little bit of air alone around those fingers. Keeps the fingers warm. And

Trevor Connor  25:55

I personally use ski gloves get good thick gloves don’t go into that oh you know I’ve got to have those thin gloves and again be arrow or whatever it is. If you can easily shift your gears your gloves aren’t big enough well

Rob Pickels  26:07

and that’s that was what I was going to point out is big gloves are great until you can’t control your bike anymore because you’re pinched between the brake lever and the handlebar and you can’t effectively brake so just make sure that your hand where allows you to stop and debris so I

Trevor Connor  26:24

will give you an alternative that is extremely warm brake pads. These are these neoprene things that go on your handlebar arm over your Barnett CRMs they go over your brake pads. Yep, I have gone out when it’s like five degrees Fahrenheit with those and I only need a thin glove because it is so warm inside those. Now

Grant Holicky  26:43

I will say this that the cyclocross element of this right we will do races in zero. We’ve done races around here and zero. We’ve done races around here and negative

Rob Pickels  26:54

nationals in Connecticut. Oh, yes. That was chilly. Yeah, real quick. The worst part about that was it was warm earlier. And there was a running section that then froze into like a lunar epochal surface. That was the worst.

Grant Holicky  27:07

I was pretty bad. Yeah. And then it started snowing during the Masters races who it snowed enough that you could not see said potholes. Yeah, that was awesome. Anyway, anyway, we going on one of the things that I’ll do in cyclocross is put a little embro on the back of the hands. So application is something that it’s like Icy Hot, and it doesn’t really create warmth, but it creates the illusion of warmth. And I think on the back of the hands, that’s a really nice thing. I’ll I’ll use it under my leg warmers, just know that it will degrade your leg warmers because it’s petroleum based over time, so use your old ones. But the other thing, a little tip that I learned during cross is you will watch riders swinging their hands or banging their hands trying to get blood back into their hands. You don’t have to do that just rhythmically, squeeze the handlebars. And that motion of rhythmically squeezing the handlebars to bring warmth and blood flow back to the hands and warm the

Rob Pickels  28:03

hands back up back to the embryo side of things, I think that the irritation can actually induce a little bit of blood flow to that area. So granted, it’s not necessarily adding external heat, but it might help you internally heat yourself. Yeah,

Trevor Connor  28:16

one of the first episodes we did was undressing for cold weather. And we did cover embrocation and read a couple of studies on it. And embro can actually have the opposite effect, it can block blood flow, don’t reveal your feeling warm. It confuses your body and your body that says I don’t need blood flow there and it will actually take blood flow away from the extremities.

Rob Pickels  28:36

I know but that shine on your leg.

Griffin McMath  28:41

So you’ve talked about hands, you’ve talked about feet, what about other exposed areas and how to keep that warm like your face you’re

Trevor Connor  28:51

the only other two points and then you guys can can jump at this one. People tell you all the time you lose most of your heat from your extremities. So keep the extremities warm. Keeping the torso isn’t as important, but there is a counter argument to that and first Yes, keep your extremities really warm but you want blood flow into your extremities and your body prioritizes keeping your core warm. So if you’re not wearing much on your core, all the blood is going to go there to protect the core and you’re not going to get any blood flow to the extremities so they have shown him multiple times in research that if you keep that core if you keep your torso warm, your body is going to allow more blood flow to the extremities. So I do think it’s important. Yeah, multiple layers and

Grant Holicky  29:36

one quick thing about the layers do remember it’s not about the thickness of the layer at all. You can do like a summer weight under shirt underneath another weight under shirt. Like if you get your four layers on there you’re gonna get and this is more on the obvious thing you didn’t want to necessarily touch.

Rob Pickels  29:55

Small social media worthy pro tips guys talking too much Okay, I’m gonna look I’m kidding.

Trevor Connor  30:02

I’m going to jump on my soapbox here because it is a big soapbox. And this thing drives me nuts. You

Grant Holicky  30:07

wear marks on your soapbox, you’re on your

Rob Pickels  30:12

soapbox so much. It’s actually one shown it’s just yeah.

Trevor Connor  30:17

Right right there. So it drives me nuts seeing people dramatically under duress in cold weather. And whenever you talk to people, it’s always well, I don’t want to sweat. I could tell you having done many, many cold rides and having sweated is that the correct term sweet. Not at all. But many of them. Sweating is not that bad over dressing and sweating a little is not a giant issue under dressing and getting really cold is so to me, that argument is kind of like saying, If I handed you a glass of arsenic and a glass of something that might cause you indigestion, you choose to drink the arsenic because you don’t want to risk getting indigestion.

Grant Holicky  31:00

She’s that went, that escalated quickly.

Griffin McMath  31:02

Yeah. And that’s just because you’re gonna continue to keep your body temperature up throughout the event anyway,

Trevor Connor  31:09

if you are cold, you are doing damage, you are literally doing damage to your muscles. If you’re warm, you’re just a little uncomfortable.

Grant Holicky  31:17

But I think you know, the one of the questions is, what are you going to go do right, if you’re going to do an a base ride, you can keep that homeostatic place pretty easily, because you’re doing the same kind of effort the whole way. If you’re going and doing some sort of a race or some sort of a workout, take some clothing off, do the workout, get the clothing back on after the workout. So you can, you know, use your layers to kind of keep everything in line

Rob Pickels  31:38

well. So to bring this back to a pro tip, type of format that I wanted to talk about, you know, climbing and descending is very much in line with what you’re talking about. It’s okay to be removing clothing on the way up not wearing it, you might not be warm at the bottom, but you’re going to be warm soon enough, but have that clothing that you can put back on when you’re warm and then do the descent.

Trevor Connor  31:59

So here’s another pro tip handlebar bag to carry extra stuff with her a lot of extra gear. So if you’re doing that long climb, put a bunch of your gear in the bag, but then pull it out for the descent.

Rob Pickels  32:10

Now, some for me, you Griffin kicked it off, and you were looking for things that weren’t hands and feet, I do want to get to feet eventually again, but on the head side of things, no matter what my head always gets really hot. And I do have a few different winter specific warm cycling caps, I always find them to be too hot. So I oftentimes will do a combination of a traditional cycling cap with a headband over my ears because my ears get cold. But that allows a little bit better of a regulation of the heat on my head where it’s not getting the direct airflow through my helmet, the cycling cap is blocking that. But my really exposed years they’re able to be covered up and warm.

Trevor Connor  32:51

So the head side, I strongly recommend neck tote or whatever you call it thing that theater buff Gator. I personally cover my head. But you can also guess he said get ones that are more of a headband. Here’s my take, I never cover my face, even when I go out and it’s like negative 20. I don’t cover my face. Because my experience has been when you cover your face, whatever is covering it collects the moisture from your breath, that moisture freezes. And I find that much more unpleasant. I would rather deal with that first 2030 minutes of my face being really cold, eventually the face goes numb and you’re fine. There’s

Rob Pickels  33:29

no I think that I think you have a point with covering your mouth and your nose. But I do kind of like wearing the ball for the neck gate or whatever you want to call it in a manner that is kind of like up high on the back of your head but then down low over your chin. And it’s covering 70% of your exposed face. But it’s not getting that hot, warm breath that eventually freezes grow beard. Who could do that?

Grant Holicky  33:54

Without a doubt. I mean, I went through this with for years on the pool deck because I coached outside year round.

Rob Pickels  34:01

All those lucky athletes in the nice heated pool. It was grant

Grant Holicky  34:04

it was rough. It was hard. But I do remember vividly. This was way back when I was still swimming and racing competing. There is a brief period there. But you shaved down for the championship meet and I remember going back on the pool deck after I had shaved. I was like I could not get warm. Really. I could not get warm. I mean there is something to body hair that helps regulate heat. Grow your hair back in the winter. Oh,

Rob Pickels  34:31


Trevor Connor  34:32

I do. I do. Same thing.

Rob Pickels  34:34

Can we switch back to feet real quick? Yeah, grant you probably know this. Trevor brought up Shoe Covers. Right for us. Shoe Covers don’t really work very well for people who do cyclocross or mountain bike because inevitably they flip off the front of your toes and you got this little like mole flapping around. You could duct tape that stuff down but I don’t know that’s just a messy way of doing it. I have old shoes that I have Aqua sealed brand name, the thick sort of poly urethane goop, all of the vents all of the holes, everything closed. And oftentimes with a pretty warm pair of socks in there and no airflow through them, I stay pretty warm and they’re perfect for cross racing in the cold. The

Grant Holicky  35:17

cheap version of that is bread bags inside. Yeah, I

Rob Pickels  35:21

did that with my kids last night on the way to practice I happened to have some some new bike parts for them in the car that happened to have bags on them. I was like perfect.

Trevor Connor  35:29

So that was a big one. When I lived in the Pacific Northwest when it was always raining and cold. You put your coat your feet and Vaseline, then you put the bread bag or the grocery bag and use an elastic band so that no water can get through and completely seal off your foot. The only

Grant Holicky  35:45

reason to wear your socks underneath your leg warmers is if you have a plastic bag under there.

Griffin McMath  35:50

I just want to go back in time and be the first person who thought of that and just like yeah, I’m gonna put petroleum jelly over my feet. Yeah.

Rob Pickels  35:57

Let’s tell me more about this one. This is maybe a pro tip is not

Trevor Connor  36:01

pleasant, but it’s far better than the alternative.

Rob Pickels  36:05

Is it more or less pleasant than embro on your feet?

Grant Holicky  36:09

Oh am Brian your feets awesome.

Rob Pickels  36:11

I’ve never tried them until you get in the shower after and then you can’t stand. That’s

Grant Holicky  36:14

the only problem with embro is that it feels like it works the best because it does two hours later, when you’re in the shower, you just that you definitely got to take a moment and wipe down your legs before you get in the shower.

Rob Pickels  36:27

And then after you’ve wiped down your legs with the towel, you’re okay with destroying because the embro is going to be like deep in there. Yep, spray yourself down with a little diluted mixture of dish soap and water and get even more of that embro off because no matter what, it’s a bit of an experience in that hot water. Yeah, nobody

Trevor Connor  36:43

warned me about that my first shower that was unpleasant.

Griffin McMath  36:46

Last two body areas. I have a question about one is our trunk. Right? Because this gets cold question.

Rob Pickels  36:53

She’s pointing to her crotch, let’s be

Griffin McMath  36:56

Kelly cut that out. No, I was pointing to my butt. So one, and maybe that’s just me projecting. And because that’s like the first thing that gets one of the first things that gets cold for me. But second, speaking of females, and keeping our trunk warm, like the chest, right, and there are heated options as well. But I’m not sure if any of you have coached female athletes. But I think those are the two areas that we have not talked about.

Rob Pickels  37:26

Yeah, one of my tips actually addresses the first one. But in in kind of an indirect way. Cycling clothing is expensive. And tights are expensive. A way to make that go a little bit further is to get some longer over tights that don’t have a shammy in them, and to wear regular bib shorts underneath the tight. So that way, you know everybody has a ready supply of regular bib shorts, you can be changing those out every day. But you’re not necessarily washing or getting your over tights as dirty because nether regions are protected by the under short

Trevor Connor  37:59

and I buy the warmest tights, as you said without a shammy that you can get. Yep.

Rob Pickels  38:04

And then that also has the dual nature of adding a little bit of extra protection in in an area that’s not doing much work and is exposed to a lot of airflow and can get pretty cold. So

Trevor Connor  38:15

in terms of the upper torso, again, the simplest solution is multiple layers with zippers, like put three four layers on and then again, when you’re getting warm, you’re doing the workout, you can unzip one or two you can control the temperature. The

Grant Holicky  38:29

thing about the tights that I think is really interesting is again, coming back to that whole idea of not everything has to be tight. The over tights that are a little loose, not loose enough that they’re gonna get in the way of the Mac or anything like that. But you know, a lot of companies make the full zips, the full zip pants for

Rob Pickels  38:47

cross or skiing, Nordic skiing. Zip pants are awesome. And

Grant Holicky  38:51

that okay, that’s my last pro tip. Nordic ski wear, don’t buy cycling gear by nordic ski gear, they’ve made it to be windproof they’ve made it to be waterproof. They’ve made it to be all those things. For years we would be racing in Nordic ski gloves, because they were windproof they were all those things and I could never find a cycling glove that could hold a candle to get

Trevor Connor  39:14

a lot of ski gear my last pro tip but your road bike away if you’re a road cyclist, get the gravel bike or even the what’s what’s the one with the giant thick tires. I’m blanking on the name the ones

Rob Pickels  39:26

with the bike at that time.

Grant Holicky  39:30

Well it is driver.

Trevor Connor  39:33

Point beam like slow that bike down. Bring the air pressure down everything when it’s cold outside speed is not your friend. No. Nor are you trying to be fast make the bike as slow as possible. If you can be doing a hard workout at seven miles an hour, you’re gonna enjoy the cold a lot better fenders,

Rob Pickels  39:55

fenders, yes, hugely important for not only you but The people behind you and the fender

Trevor Connor  40:01

should go to the ground. I kid you not.

Grant Holicky  40:03

Yeah, that one’s big. It is worth the fender that is full tire on the back and a good chunk of the front. They’ve gotten a lot better. They have gotten a lot better, right? No, I

Trevor Connor  40:13

showed it when I was racing with CSU. I showed up on my bike. I just moved from Pacific Northwest. So I had this huge fender on it. And everyone was making fun of me why you got that fender and then we all went out for a ride in the rain and everybody was fighting to sit on my wheel.

Grant Holicky  40:26

Yeah, well, it was Colorado. So it was the one time it rained over the course of three months, people.

Trevor Connor  40:33

But I was the hero that one time with three months. Listener listeners, the guide you’ve been waiting for is here, our guide to the polarized training method. Visit fast talk labs.com To see our new deep dive into polarized training. featuring Dr. Steven Siler, me, Trevor Connor, and coaches Ryan Bolton and Alan cousins. In this groundbreaking comprehensive guide, we show you how to polarize, why it works, how it compares, how to measure it, how to coach it, how it changes over the season, and how to know when it’s working for you. This is the season you can master the polarized training method. Joint fast talk labs. It’s our polarized training. seaboard fast talk labs.com.

Rob Pickels  41:19

What do we think we get some tips in there maybe some take homes for people? Somebody’s gonna incorporate one of those. Yeah, I

Grant Holicky  41:25

think so. I got something out of it. Hot Tub when you get home, top

Rob Pickels  41:28

it up? Sounds like the offseason. Which

Grant Holicky  41:31

brings us to my question. And mine is very general. And I’m kind of interested to see where you guys take this. And I put the phrase in quotes. What does the offseason mean to you guys?

Rob Pickels  41:45

I thought it was an interesting question. And Franconia? Well, because I was talking with an athlete the other day of sometimes the answer to the question isn’t as important as the process it took to get to the answer. And that’s why the question is so important to ask. Right. So the thing I was thinking about Grant was, I think that the offseason is any time that I would de emphasize training in a purposeful manner, not as the reaction to something but as a preparatory decision for any sustainable amount of time. I think oftentimes, the offseason tends to fall around now for people but it doesn’t necessarily have to. And I would maybe extend that thinking to other times of the year, that training really has to take a backseat to something else. Whether that’s social because you want to spend time with the holidays, maybe you have a ton of work trips for the next three months, and you have to deprioritize I tend to look at those in very similar manners.

Trevor Connor  42:51

I just want to clarify because we clarified this off Mike beforehand, I when I think of the offseason, I think of something that’s like two, three weeks, where you’re truly off. You’re defining that offseason as that plus, probably that first month or two where you’re training but you’re so far out from the season. It’s not that critical.

Rob Pickels  43:09

Ultimately, it’s anytime that training is not first and foremost, there are times where for the best performance, you really have to put your emphasis on training. You have to maybe you know, I’m sorry, Grant, I can’t get beers with you tonight because I got a hard workout. There are other times of the year where it’s like screw the workout, man, I’m getting a beer. That is the offseason to me. And that could be if you’re super dedicated racer that’s racing multiple seasons, that could be two or three weeks. If you’re maybe like more of a general recreational rider or racer, then maybe that’s more like two or three months.

Trevor Connor  43:45

Well, I’ll start it out by saying to me, it’s two things one you just covered the offseason is when if you got friends going out. If you’re not feeling up to it, it’s okay to say I’m skipping the workout, which I personally will tend not to do at the height of the season. You know, it’s gotta do the work. You got to get out there. You got to make it happen. offseason you don’t necessarily have to. The other thing that the offseason is, for me is the time to do all that stuff. You can’t necessarily do it other times of the year. So I spent a lot of time running. If I’m on the bike, I go and do those routes that aren’t good training. I spent a lot of time in the gym to get involved in other sports. I was hoping to play tennis this year, but there’s a foot of snow on the ground. So that sort of thing.

Grant Holicky  44:26

And I think that’s part of why I asked the question is I was interested in different people’s versions of what offseason means to them. I use this phrase a lot with athletes be active but don’t train because it’s different, right? If I look at somebody like one of the athletes that I coach, we get to a very dedicated offseason and we’re taking time off. I don’t want them to train at all. I don’t want them to run. I don’t want them to hike. I want them to basically lay in bed I want their body to recover. And I remember back in the day when I was racing, triathlon at a fairly elite level I would finished Maori, it was exterra worlds. And I remember telling people that the first week I just my body didn’t want to do anything, right. It was kind of what you were mentioning it shut down, it was done. I don’t have to read, we’re not doing anything. And I would just lay around. What always would happen during that second or third week that I took completely off, Nothing would hurt anymore, I would get into this place where I would wake up and be This is amazing. I feel amazing. Like my knees don’t hurt, my hips don’t hurt, nothing hurts. I’m not sore, holy crap, that’s great. But by the end of the third week, I was like, Okay, I feel slow and fat, I gotta get going. Again, like, for me, it was a very distinct progression through that time off. So that’s one piece as an elite athlete, take time off, don’t do anything. But I think that conversation very much changes with the age of not putting you in this Griffin, the age of the boys in this room. We’re older I’m 50. Trevor’s 73 Rob’s I don’t know, like 12 mentally. But you get in a place where training or the bike or exercise is a part of who we are. It’s a part of what we do. It’s a part of our break from the stress of life. It’s a part away. It’s really, really important to me to stay active, like things start to fall apart mentally if I’m not active. So for me, that becomes an offseason isn’t this period of inactivity, let everything recover. It’s a period kind of like what you’re talking about, Trevor, do something different, be active, but don’t train. And I think that becomes a really important distinction. And I think far too many athletes go one way or the other. They Oh, I can’t stop training or take a break. Because this is what my life is. And this is how I do my life really, really well. No, you still need some sort of a break at least mentally, or an elite athlete that doesn’t take that full on time off, because they’re afraid of losing something

Griffin McMath  47:01

since joining fast talk labs in talking about offseason in general, something that I’ve heard a little bit more and a little bit more of has been looking at offseason, not necessarily from Trevor, but just the people that I’ve been able to meet is looking at offseason as a time of play and experimentation. And beyond that, first and foremost for the purpose of joy, really enjoying your life and what else can be added to it. Secondly, from this competitive edge, or opening up a second career door of can I diversify. You know, my activity in sports. And so I think that’s been something that’s been introduced to me one, like I said, a sense of play, and just not everything has to have a purpose. Not everything has to have a trophy or a podium at the end of it. And then secondly, wait a minute, can this give me an edge somehow?

Grant Holicky  47:54

I think that’s really interesting. You know how I feel about the word joy, right? Like joy is everything to me. And I

Trevor Connor  47:59

think the offseason joy, joy, happy happy

Grant Holicky  48:03

man, a Ren and Stimpy reference. That’s

Trevor Connor  48:05

fantastic, greatest shows of all time.

Grant Holicky  48:09

I don’t even know where to go with that. But you know, you know how I feel about that, that word and that idea in sport. And it’s so easy, especially leading into the big event to lose some of that joy and to find ways to bring that back, Trevor talks about riding the roads that he wouldn’t train on. That’s big. Like, you don’t necessarily think about it. But you get stuck in these ruts of doing the same thing, because that’s a good training road, or that’s the grade I want, or that’s the loop time I want. And I think bringing some of those elements back into what you’re doing, bringing that joy of like, oh, yeah, this is why I ride the bike is a really, really big deal. So

Trevor Connor  48:47

I kid you not during the season, when I’m training hard, I’ll constantly pass roads. I’m like, I wonder what’s down there. But I can’t do it today. I got intervals. I keep an app on my phone, where I write down the rows that I saw them like I want to go explore that. And my offseason is when I pull that out. So Trevor, go to

Rob Pickels  49:08

the other side of this is how have you not

Trevor Connor  49:10

even a shot from Griffin

Griffin McMath  49:14

the cutest thing? I want to know these roads driven pigs the best parts

Grant Holicky  49:19


Rob Pickels  49:20

well that yeah, that’s the other side of this for me is how do you not know every inch of every road in the surrounding 100 miles this is all thing they’re

Trevor Connor  49:27

a bunch of little half the times you go up and it’s like it’s a mile long and it’s nothing. But every once awhile you find something really cool. I have

Griffin McMath  49:34

questions. What does it for you on these roads? Is it the architecture what’s happening here?

Trevor Connor  49:39

It’s something new I love to explore. See, and that’s my point,

Griffin McMath  49:42

right? Like is the purpose of offseason this exploration play that doesn’t have a goal attached to it and yeah, I think

Trevor Connor  49:51

I’m gonna add is don’t set the length of your offseason don’t say I’m gonna have two weeks and then I’m back at it. You need Need to kind of go with how you feel. So I’ve had some offseasons where I was pretty motivated and got right back on the bike and back to training pretty quick. I think of my best season ever was 2007 2006 ended rough, I got hit hard by a car, and then injured had to do to more stage races. So I was done at the end of 2006. And I took the typical offseason got to the point where we’d normally be back to training and went. Now, I don’t want to and spent all November playing tennis did not touch my bike took much, much longer offseason than I had ever taken and went on to have my best season ever. And then

Rob Pickels  50:39

I think that this is a good point in both directions, right? Where if you haven’t been training purposefully for a significant amount of time, if you haven’t been working towards specific goals, and those are now behind you, do you need an offseason? Or can you continue forward? Because you don’t need to come back down from something.

Grant Holicky  51:00

You know, I’ve made this argument before. This is going to sound like it’s off topic, but I think it is on on topic. I make the argument that people are like, Oh, you can only stay peaked for so long. I agree with that. But I think most people think that that’s a physical thing. It’s not as much a physical thing as it is a mental thing. Yep. Right. So your form, you could theory in theory, if you race, recover, race recover, and you really time it right? You could be on form for a long time physically. But mentally, that is a lot to ask. Right. And I think that’s the point you’re making a little bit when you’ve made that sacrifice, you’ve made that singular focus for yourself mentally when you get to a place where you get to shut that down. That’s the key. And people who do it really, really well can do this proactively throughout the season. While I have a vacation coming up in June, I’m going to plan my life around that vacation. I’m gonna go on that vacation. I’m gonna shut down if you’re planning those things in three times a year, four times a year. Maybe you don’t need this really distinct, dedicated offseason. Maybe you use the holidays as the offseason I can’t tell you how many times I’ve talked, especially with Masters athletes, but I do this with my professional ones, too. What are you doing for the holidays? Well, I’m going here and I’m thinking I’m gonna bring my bike and don’t bring your bike. Just don’t bring your bike to just go and enjoy the holidays that sport Ah, not gonna lose anything. Think about what you might gain.

Trevor Connor  52:24

So we had several listeners of the show reach out and say why do you always recommend the training in the offseason letting your fitness come down? Why don’t you just maintain it? And so being who I am, I said, let’s try it. Let’s experiment. So I had a good season 2007 and just said, I’m going to keep my fitness and D train to like I went into base training. So lost a little bit of the top end, but really didn’t have the D training I typically have. And I can tell you December, January, February, half of March of 2018, I was putting out the best numbers I’d ever put out in the winter, I got to May and explode it in a way I’ve never exploded before. Yeah,

Grant Holicky  53:07

it’s hard to delineate, it’s hard to define whether that is more mental or physical, because they both have a component to it for sure. But for me, I just know that it’s so much mental. And this comes all the way back to your point, Trevor, of like really understanding where you are, how much that season took out of you, or how much that last event took out of you? Or what do you need, and being able to communicate that with your coach, you know what I need week, I need a little bit of time.

Rob Pickels  53:35

And I think that this is what you just said at the end is really important. I think that this is something that a coach can help an athlete with because they’re an objective third party that’s able to see the bigger picture and make larger recommendations on what is and isn’t appropriate, based on feedback provided explicitly by the athlete but also feedback in terms of observation that the coach is making about the athlete for the past year or multiple years. And I think oftentimes it can be difficult for an individual to know, in this situation, what is best for them? Oh, absolutely,

Grant Holicky  54:09

I would go so far as to say that an individual is going to be constantly conflicted. I don’t know very many athletes that are very good at sitting there saying you know what, I need more time. Actually, that’s wrong to say, a lot of them will say I think I might need more time. But I can’t take it now or I can’t afford to do this, or I don’t want to de train or I don’t want to go down those roads. That’s why the relationship between the athlete and the coach is so essential is to have that place that you can go, Hey, man, I’m thinking about this. What do you think? And if the response is always well, that’s the plan, stick to the plan. Now fans think you need to find a new coach, Coach athlete relationship is a partnership. And you need to be able to be looking at each other going well what do you think about this? What do you think about this? Where do we go from here and really understand that that does decision has been made together. And that the plan still has the agility in the ability to change. Cuz it’s gonna change.

Griffin McMath  55:09

I think having, you know, a goal for the athlete to be able to increasingly be able to voice or understand be self aware of what time they need to, I think to expect that someone’s going to have that at the outset is unrealistic, but having a coach give that feedback over time, that almost gives them permission, like you had said, like, no, no, no, you’re gonna be okay with four days off or like, go have a second piece of cake, you will be okay. Or you know, you’re no beer, a hot toddy, great time of year, right? Whatever. It seriously,

Grant Holicky  55:44

you know, no, I’m gonna jump in. You’re wearing corduroy jumpsuit. I’m pretty sure I watched you pull a Kleenex out of your sleeve earlier. And now you bust it out hot Todd, really

Griffin McMath  55:54

think I am a grandma, I kind of RAD grandmas Are you knowing and please introduce them to me that we’re white high tops, and corduroy jumpsuit.

Grant Holicky  56:03

I know those grandmas, they’re awesome. You’re gonna be a great grandma one day, go, I’m sorry.

Griffin McMath  56:10

No, it’s, it’s fair. And I need you to introduce me to them. They sound amazing. But there is this any relationship that we have, we have an opportunity, especially in that type of dynamic to reflect back someone like it’s going to be okay. And sometimes we need external permission that we can kind of CO opt and then take on as our own. And then over time, we can start to give ourselves that permission. And then over time, it becomes less about permission, and it becomes a proactive measure of creating space. So I really like how you talked about that. And then to the point of, and if your coach is not doing that, dump him? Yeah,

Grant Holicky  56:46

I know, it’s a key point of any relationship, right in your in the early part of any relationship, and you’re looking for permissions. And then when somebody is creating an environment where that permission is assumed, like, they’re like, No, you don’t need permission. And let me help you understand that you don’t, that’s when it starts to become this really balanced, supported relationship. And not to get off topic here. But I can’t tell you how many athletes are going to walk in the door for coaches that are listening for everybody that don’t understand that they’re allowed to do that they’ve never been allowed to do that youth sport does not create that. And my desire to go on tangents on development and sport are it’s through the roof. But we don’t create that autonomy and many young athletes. So they come to these relationships with a coach that maybe is able to do that. And they don’t have their voice yet. Yeah, coach’s job is to help them find that voice and then the relationship can be what it can be.

Trevor Connor  57:43

Add to that if you are one of those athletes, who obsesses the numbers looks a lot at the charts, particularly if you are self coached, the offseason is a time to stop looking because you are not going to like what you see. I have looked at my performance management chart and weeks, but I can guarantee you my CTL is in the 40s Right? Oh, yeah. And there’s a lot of athletes out there who if they saw that they would panic. Oh my god, I’m in the 40s. My season’s over. Personally, if you ask me for a CTL Mark, I’m not ready to start training until it has tanked down that low.

Grant Holicky  58:18

But well, and I wouldn’t even go so far as to I like what you say about don’t look, as much as I know that as much as I know to not look at those numbers. Did those numbers are addicting to everybody? To me as a coach for a long time that would never look at CTL. For an athlete. Like I don’t honestly look at it unless something’s wonky. Then I go back and look at I look at mine every day. And I shouldn’t look at mine every day. You know, I know better than that. So that separation is really, really smart. Just put it away for a little bit. That’s something we’ve said about cross season for a long time. It’s an inevitable dive during cross season just because it doesn’t understand it. So don’t look. But yeah, that’s a great point.

Trevor Connor  59:03

Well, do we have anything else to add to this conversation?

Grant Holicky  59:06

I think we have a lot of things to add, but I think that’s a good place to stop.

Trevor Connor  59:09

I’d agree. So grant. Yes, sir. I feel like today was kind of a revenge for you. Because we have beaten up on you so much. In this episode. You use today you got all of us you’ve been called Griffin grammar.

Grant Holicky  59:23

Well, I don’t I Griffin game on. I don’t want her to not feel part of the group. I want her to feel like loved and involved in that. It’s really important that I treat you guys like crops to know that your loved

Trevor Connor  59:37

you feel loved to Griffin. I

Griffin McMath  59:38

feel so loved and honestly, if this is how the grandmas, you know, they talk about hot toddies and they were high tops and I’m in the right crowd. Right? Yeah, doing great. Thanks.

Trevor Connor  59:50

So grab. I feel like you should take us out today.

Grant Holicky  59:53

I don’t know where to take us. This has been another episode of fast talk. That’s all I know.

Rob Pickels  59:58

The thoughts and opinions his restaurant fast talk are those of the

Trevor Connor  1:00:03

individual. Yes.

Grant Holicky  1:00:04

Not a fast dog. Please listen, subscribe on your favorite podcast app. And if your podcast app has something where you can put a comment in, put a comment and tell us how we’re doing. Why are you laughing? I’m doing the best I can.

Rob Pickels  1:00:18

I love that. No, man. i This

Grant Holicky  1:00:21

has been another episode of fast talk. I’m Rob pickles. behind door number two.

Rob Pickels  1:00:26

You’re not beating me into doing it.

Grant Holicky  1:00:29

Try not. Come on. That voice is really good. You should be a game show host.

Rob Pickels  1:00:34

Yes, boy. You do have a good voice I’m not doing I’m

Grant Holicky  1:00:36

so depressed. My day is just not gonna be the same. Thanks

Trevor Connor  1:00:39

for listening for the grouchy grant holiday for the grandma Griffin McMath, the very tired drop pickles. I’m Trevor Connor.