How to Successfully Race a Gravel Event with Lauren de Crescenzo

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Past Unbound Winner, Lauren de Crescenzo and YouTube journalist Ben Delaney talk with us about the ways of successful gravel racing.

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Chris Case: Hey everyone, welcome to Fast Talk, your source for the science of endurance performance. I’m your host, Chris Case, here with Trevor Connor. A few days before this recording, the 2026 edition of Unbound took place on a wet and muddy day. The event has become one of, if not the premier gravel event in the world, and with the rise in popularity of gravel racing in the last decade, that makes it simply one of the premier events, period.

Unbound, with its 200-mile race on primarily rolling gravel roads, is known for being an extraordinarily tough day in the saddle. This year, over 3,200 athletes lined up, but a lot fewer finished. The only guarantee when you line up for that race is that things are going to go wrong, something on your bike is probably going to break, it’s going to be a constant struggle to ingest food, and it’s definitely going to be a long day in the saddle.

But it is also a fun and inclusive environment where everyone rolls out together and generally supports one another. It’s a fantastic race. While Unbound is unique for its difficulty, uh, the description applies to just about any gravel race and is a big part of what has attracted so many riders to the gravel scene.

Preparing for a gravel event isn’t the same as the local crit or a two-hour road race. That’s because equipment, food, training, all that has to be looked at a little bit differently. Here to help us navigate preparing for and racing for gravel events are two seasoned experts. Lauren De Crescenzo is a legend in the gravel world, having won most of the big events, including winning Unbound in 2022, and she finished sixth this year Joining Lauren is friend of the show Ben Delaney, who has spent the last few years reporting on gravel races for his YouTube channel, The Ride, but he also never misses an opportunity to participate, and he has won several of the biggest gravel races in his age group.

They’re going to talk to us about what it’s like to race gravel at the pro level, but more importantly, how to enter the scene if you’re a new amateur just looking to try it out. We’ll talk about the different types of gravel events and which ones to start with, what you have to do to get through a 100-plus mile gravel event successfully, what sort of gear and grub you should take, and finally, why racing in mud and cow poop for 200 miles has additional challenges.

But before we get into all of that, today’s episode is sponsored by Stages. Trevor, you’ve been on power meters for 20 years. You’ve been on a Stages power meter for the last couple months.

[00:02:32] Trevor Connor: Well, I’ve been on a new Stages for the last- Right … month, so I’ve certainly had Stages in the past. But yeah, I have been finding the experience very interesting.

As you know, I love pulling out research studies- Mm-hmm … so this is a little different for me. I’m giving you that N of 1 experience. The subjective

[00:02:52] Chris Case: Trevor.

[00:02:53] Trevor Connor: So this is not… Yeah, this is the subjective- … what I feel about it.

[00:02:56] Chris Case: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:57] Trevor Connor: But I have been quite impressed, because I suffer from what a lot of people suffer from, of I have multiple power meters, and I could tell you the old power meter on my road bike, I would always go out on it, and as much as I love the numbers, go, “Yeah, that’s a little high.”

[00:03:15] Chris Case: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:16] Trevor Connor: The one on my gravel bike, sorta gravel bike-

[00:03:19] Chris Case: Sort of gravel bike That’s a generous description of it, yes …

[00:03:23] Trevor Connor: the, the thing you- The all-purpose bike … are embarrassed to see in our, uh, our lobby, it reads really low.

[00:03:29] Chris Case: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:30] Trevor Connor: And you can see the difference between the two. What I find very interesting is, a while back, I, I built a graph in WKO with Dr.

Seiler’s help that compares heart rate to power. Mm-hmm. And it’s so- fairly sophisticated formulas that I won’t go into, but basically divides heart rate by power, simplified explanation.

[00:03:54] Chris Case: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:55] Trevor Connor: And what you’re supposed to get is, it should sit right at 1. Mm-hmm. They should be kinda equivalent And this graph looks for cardiac drift, where eventually you start seeing it kicking up as heart rate goes up relative- Yes

to power. And what I’ve noticed is some of my past power meters just sit way above that one line.

[00:04:15] Chris Case: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:16] Trevor Connor: Some sit way below that one line. One thing I have really appreciated about this new Stages power meter is it is right on one.

[00:04:24] Chris Case: Hmm. So consistent data, not only between rides, but within rides as well, and that probably has to do with some of those features that we’ve spoken about before, like temperature compensation and all of these things that are sort of sitting in the background automatically making sure that that meter is accurate.

[00:04:43] Trevor Connor: Yeah. It is consistent. It is where it should be. I don’t like that as much as the power meter- … that was reading much higher.

[00:04:51] Chris Case: Damn you, Stages, for making an accurate power meter.

[00:04:55] Trevor Connor: But it is consistent. It is where it should be. That, that’s what you want in a power

[00:05:00] Chris Case: meter. And that’s, that resonates with your nerd sensibilities.

I mean, we’re getting the feelings of Trevor here, but that also matches up with the science that you like- Yeah … to have supporting the products that you use.

[00:05:13] Trevor Connor: Look, this is not a controlled study in a lab, but this is me using power meters for 20 years, where I feel like I’ve gotten a good sense of, yeah, that one’s too high, that one’s too low, and I’ve, I’ve seen it on both sides-

[00:05:25] Chris Case: Yeah

[00:05:26] Trevor Connor: of just riding a power meter and going, “This seems right. This seems like it’s got numbers.”

[00:05:30] Chris Case: And I, that is not to be discounted. The feeling of having confidence in the things that are helping you train and race are hugely important.

[00:05:41] Trevor Connor: Yep.

[00:05:41] Chris Case: Great. Well, to check out more about Stages Cycling, go to stagescycling.com and see how training with a Stages power meter can change the way you ride.

Now, grab hold of that gravel spirit. Let’s make you fast. Lauren, Ben, welcome to Fast Talk.

[00:05:59] Lauren De Crescenzo: Thank you. Happy to be here.

[00:06:01] Ben Delaney: Hey, everybody.

[00:06:02] Chris Case: So we wanted to talk to both of you because you are both steeped in gravel. You live the gravel life.

[00:06:13] Lauren De Crescenzo: The gravel lifestyle,

[00:06:14] Chris Case: yes. The gravel lifestyle. And Lauren, obviously you come from a road background, but you’ve been in the gravel world at an elite level for years now, and Ben, you too come from more of a roadie background, but now you’ve been living this life of traveling to races and racing the races and talking to the racers of all types and kinds.

So we wanna talk about how to really have that best gravel result yet. This is geared towards training aspects, but let’s talk about all the things that go into that, the legs, the gut, the head, all of that. Where do we begin? Tell us, Lauren first, if you will, why people should listen to you. What’s your experience?

What do you bring to the table in terms of your knowledge, experience? expertise, wisdom- Yes … if you will- Yes … when it comes to gravel The, the wisdom. The gravel wisdom … this, this crazy sport of gravel racing.

[00:07:17] Lauren De Crescenzo: Of course. Well, yeah, I came from a road background. I started road racing back in 2010, and I would say I was doing gravel when they were still considered road races with some dirt sections in them.

Mm-hmm. So the very, very impetus of gravel. I’ve just been, yeah, from like 2015, just doing some weird gravel thing.

[00:07:40] Chris Case: What attracted you to gravel back then?

[00:07:43] Lauren De Crescenzo: What I really liked about it was I was able to just go hard the entire time. Mm. I didn’t have to, like, do any of the, you know, mind games like you would in a road race, like all the strategy with, like, different teammates.

I really just wanted to go out and just ride as hard as I could for hours and hours and hours and hours.

[00:08:04] Ben Delaney: I gotta jump in. Lauren’s being too humble, ask- and also asking somebody just like, why should you listen to them? Let me tell you, dear listeners, why you should listen to Lauren, ’cause she has won- Oh,

[00:08:12] Lauren De Crescenzo: better.

Yes. Thank you,

[00:08:14] Ben Delaney: Ben. … all the biggest races out there. Like, she has won Unbound Gravel 200. She has won Steamboat Gravel multiple times. She has won Gravel Worlds multiple times. She has won the Mid-South multiple times. She has won the Ride Dirt Fest multiple times. So there’s a lot of us out there doing it, but there’s a handful of people doing it as a career, and then there’s a tiny fraction of those folks who have Lauren’s palmares, who have not just participated in the biggest ones out there but stood on the top step at the end of the day, so

[00:08:46] Trevor Connor: gal knows what she’s talking about.

So you’re just dipping your toe into this gravel thing.

[00:08:51] Lauren De Crescenzo: I’m just dipping my toes, yeah. Yeah. I just like to go hard for a long time. With a… Thank you, Ben. I can’t list my own palmares.

[00:09:00] Chris Case: Let me, let me ask you a different question. Why should anybody listen to Ben?

[00:09:06] Lauren De Crescenzo: Oh, no

[00:09:06] Ben Delaney: That is a harder question. Yeah. Well, if, if, if you like dad jokes, you know, I may, I may on occasion have something in there.

[00:09:14] Lauren De Crescenzo: He makes some really good dad jokes. He’s fun to ride with.

[00:09:18] Trevor Connor: I tried a dad joke earlier with Chris because I’m about to technically be a dad.

[00:09:23] Ben Delaney: Oh, congratulations.

[00:09:24] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah.

[00:09:24] Trevor Connor: Well-

[00:09:25] Lauren De Crescenzo: Congrats … I mean- And-

[00:09:26] Trevor Connor: She’s 25, and- Well, they’re 25 and 22, so- Through, through marriage … through, through marriage. But, um, yeah, no, I cracked a dad joke, and Chris just looks at me and goes, “There are funny dad jokes, and then there’s the joke you just told.”

Well.

[00:09:41] Chris Case: Yeah, there’s a wide spectrum. And you were at one end of that spectrum.

[00:09:45] Trevor Connor: Well, I’ve got a question here, ’cause I had an interesting conversation with another gravel racer. Not, not with your level, but still a, a good gravel racer this weekend, and maybe this is a good place to start of, it seems like there are different levels of gravel event.

‘Cause the conversation I had with him is he was telling me he’s done Unbound or did Unbound four years in a row.

[00:10:09] Chris Case: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:09] Trevor Connor: And this year he chose not to do Unbound. I’m like, “Why is that?” And he goes, “‘Cause when you do Unbound, you’re spending six weeks focusing on nothing but getting ready for it.”

[00:10:19] Chris Case: Mm-hmm. “

[00:10:19] Trevor Connor: Then you do the race, and then it’s a month before you’re ready to race again.”

[00:10:23] Chris Case: Mm-hmm. “

[00:10:24] Trevor Connor: And there’s all these other races that are going on.” He’s like, “I just wanna do those other races.” Mm. “I wanna actually do a bunch of races as opposed to losing half of my year for a single race.” So it does seem like, you know, this reminds me of triathlon, where if you’re doing Ironman, you’re only doing a few a year.

[00:10:41] Lauren De Crescenzo: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:42] Trevor Connor: Normal length triathlon you could do every single weekend. What is it like in gravel? Is there just these different levels of events that take very different prep or?

[00:10:50] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yes, for sure. I would say Unbound does, it does require the most amount of prep. Yeah, Unbound training blocks, everyone’s doing them, the blocks.

I did mine down in Santa Fe with, uh, Cecily, uh, Decker, and Alexis Scala. We were down there for three weeks getting all the hemoglobins, doing all the heat training just, uh, doing the Tour of New Mexico. We rode 35 hours in one week, and we did some races. It, it was all focused and geared towards Unbound training, and I haven’t done that for any of the races, well, this year.

I don’t do it for any of the other races. But I don’t know. My race before Unbound was actually the Traka in- Mm-hmm … Girona, which was… actually took way longer for me. It was a 12-and-a-half-hour race, the longest bike ride I’ve ever done. But yeah, I would say recovering from that and being ready for Unbound did take the entire month.

I’m hoping that I’m ready to race in two weeks. I plan on doing US Pro Road Nats down in Charleston, West Virginia.

[00:11:51] Trevor Connor: So for our listeners, when was your last race? That was…

[00:11:54] Lauren De Crescenzo: It was on Saturday.

[00:11:56] Trevor Connor: Yeah.

[00:11:57] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah. A couple

[00:11:58] Chris Case: days ago.

[00:11:58] Lauren De Crescenzo: It was a few days ago. I can still feel it a little in my legs.

[00:12:01] Chris Case: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:02] Trevor Connor: So for that amateur that is thinking about doing some gravel, what would be the sort of events that you would recommend they start at to give this a try?

It sounds like if you’ve never done gravel, going and doing Unbound as your first is probably a poor choice.

[00:12:19] Ben Delaney: Not necessarily. Not necessarily. I think, I mean, there’s one thing that is fantastic about gravel for those of us who aren’t Lauren, and even for Lauren, is that there’s all sorts of different distances to choose from.

She spoke of Unbound and Choca. Choca’s got everything from, I feel like the shortest one there is 100 kilometer race up to the 560K. And, you know, Unbound, the premier race distance that Lauren has done multiple times in one is the 200 mile, which is the biggest distance I think that most professionals are competing at.

Like, even for a gravel pro, that’s stupid long, and that’s, like, the one time a year people will ride that long.

[00:12:58] Lauren De Crescenzo: Um, but the- No, I did it

[00:12:58] Ben Delaney: twice

[00:12:59] Lauren De Crescenzo: this year. Twice. Mm-hmm. Same month, same month. Crazy.

[00:13:03] Ben Delaney: Yeah. That is crazy. Then, but then at Unbound there’s also the 100, and there’s a 50- Yeah … and there’s a 25 mile.

And so you can go to an event like Unbound, and if you can get in the lottery, you can do any distance in ones that seem a little bit more approachable, and still kind of surf the energy of the whole event where there’s 5,000 registered riders participating, and there’s thousands of more people in town doing the thing, so.

It’s not an all or nothing where you have to commit to training Lauren hours and riding Lauren speeds in order to do it. Like- No,

[00:13:38] Lauren De Crescenzo: it is, it is my job to train all day.

[00:13:43] Chris Case: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Unbound’s-

[00:13:45] Lauren De Crescenzo: Other things, yeah … a bit of

[00:13:45] Chris Case: an anomaly-

[00:13:47] Lauren De Crescenzo: It is … in a,

[00:13:47] Chris Case: in a sense. For sure. For you both, question in my mind becomes- Is it enough to train the engine then and be able to hit any race you want and be fairly successful?

Or do you find yourselves preparing specifically for each of those races in different ways, depending on the- Right … terrain?

[00:14:12] Lauren De Crescenzo: I would say, uh, my training does vary, um, depending on the upcoming race. Coached by, yeah, Elliot Baring, and he’s just the brains behind the whole operation. But I’d say, yeah, May was definitely a huge volume block, and now we’re gonna start adding some more, like, VO2 five-minute efforts, getting ready for pro road natts, but, and the SBC Gravel.

But I would say the volume that you get in a block for an Unbound or a Traka, I think it does really lend itself, ’cause the fitness is, like, really, really high, and then it’s just, like, fine-tuning the fitness for each race. So it’s just a mega volume block.

[00:14:48] Trevor Connor: Mm-hmm. So I was gonna say, when you’re preparing for Unbound, is it just all volume, or are you still doing some intensity?

[00:14:55] Lauren De Crescenzo: What does it look like? Oh, yeah, definitely, yeah. As the race changes, too, as it gets, becomes more of a road race, road race to you and, like, the peloton and everything, you s- still have to do, like, the high, like, VO2 efforts, the shorter efforts for the race deciding moves But then you also have to have hours and hours and hours in your legs so you can last for the rest of the race.

[00:15:15] Chris Case: Mm-hmm. Going back to Unbound then a, a little bit, if you put your coaching hat on and you’re working with somebody who doesn’t have the time that you have, how do you allow them, or how do they get the volume they need to prepare themselves for what would be potentially a 12-hour, 14-hour, 16-hour day for somebody- Right

who’s doing it as an- at an amateur level? Can you cheat your way there? Can you do double sessions? Do you do a lot of big gear work? W- Mm-hmm. What would you have them do?

[00:15:48] Lauren De Crescenzo: There’s a lot of ways to work the system, I’d say. I’m just thinking back to the year I did win Unbound in 2021. I was… I had a full-time job at the CDC doing epidemiology during the pandemic, actually.

So I was really, really busy, um, at work, but I was also teleworking, which was nice for doing the midday rides and everything. Mm-hmm. But I would not ride, I did not ride on Mondays or Fridays. I took those days completely off. I did intervals on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and I did long rides on the weekends as long as I could.

[00:16:23] Chris Case: Same coach at that time as you have now?

[00:16:26] Lauren De Crescenzo: No. No. No. Different coach. Yeah. But now that I have so much more time to work with, I don’t need to work around any time constraints. I have– every day is a Saturday, which is- Yeah, I’m very, very grateful for that every day is a Saturday. Mm-hmm. I have to remind Elliott sometimes, like, “You know I don’t have to take Monday off, right?”

Every day.

[00:16:48] Chris Case: So three days in a row of intervals, and then a one day of rest, and then two, I would assume, pretty long days Saturday and Sunday back then.

[00:16:57] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yes. Two, two long rides on the weekends.

[00:17:00] Chris Case: Yeah.

[00:17:01] Lauren De Crescenzo: Two rest days, Monday, Friday. That’s just the way I did it, and it worked.

[00:17:04] Chris Case: Yeah. So

[00:17:05] Lauren De Crescenzo: like- But high intensity intervals during the week, though.

[00:17:07] Chris Case: Yeah.

[00:17:08] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah. None of this, like, vol– I couldn’t accumulate massive volume. I had two hours at most-

[00:17:13] Trevor Connor: Mm-hmm …

[00:17:14] Lauren De Crescenzo: to go ride during the day.

[00:17:16] Chris Case: Yeah.

[00:17:16] Trevor Connor: Yeah. So let me see if I can phrase this question correctly. But what does it take, in your opinion, to be able to get through one of these events successfully? So not talking about trying to go and win Unbound or win Steamboat Gravel.

But for somebody who’s more amateur, who wants to do one of these events, and they wanna get through it, and say, “That was successful-” I felt good about that. And part of the reason I’m using that term is I’m a big believer that you could take somebody who’s pretty untrained, put them in even Unbound, and they’ll be able to finish.

They’re gonna be in the hospital when they’re done. Maybe. Maybe. But they’ll be able to finish.

[00:17:53] Lauren De Crescenzo: Noonan County Hospital

[00:17:55] Trevor Connor: in Emporia. Um, I wouldn’t call that a successful- Right … getting through the event. Like, you got to the finish line, great.

[00:18:01] Chris Case: Yep.

[00:18:02] Trevor Connor: And thing I always think of, my nephew, I, I can’t remember the name of the guy.

My nephew read this book about this guy who was talking about, oh, what humans can accomplish and human spirit, and he was going and doing all these crazy events. And then spending, like, three weeks in the hospital with liver failure and all these other things, and- Not

[00:18:19] Chris Case: a sustainable lifestyle.

[00:18:20] Trevor Connor: Right. And I remember- Yeah, no

talking about it with a couple professional athletes, and their response was, “What an idiot.” Of course, we can all go and do that stuff. The point is not to end up in the hospital or in trouble afterwards. So that’s what I mean by the- Mm-hmm … get through the event successfully. What does that take? If you were…

If somebody was coming to you and say, “I’m gonna go do some big gravel event. I’ve never done something like this before,” they’re an amateur, what would you be telling them? This is what you need to do so you can get through successfully, and you don’t have the liver failure a few days later.

[00:18:54] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah, to avoid liver failure, I- Insane

would advise, no, hydration. Hydration is easy to forget, but drinking lots of fluids. I don’t drink water anymore actually. I just drink electrolytes, which is good. I would say, I mean, eating and fueling, it’s basically… But gravel racing in some ways is just like an eating contest on two wheels. Like, I did about 90 to 100 grams of carbs per hour in my race on Saturday and felt great with that.

So I say the, yeah, carbs are super, super important. Yeah, I work… Yeah, the Feed gives me all kinds of cool stuff to eat and try. And yeah, I have that nutrition strategy dialed. So I think focusing on things like not necessarily the training, but the things that complement the training, like the nutrition and the strength.

Yeah, every morning I’m rolling around on the floor for, like, an hour doing, like, strength and stre- mobility and everything. But I mean, a lot of people don’t have time for that. You can do it in like 10 minutes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But, like, just doing Like at the event itself, just, yeah, remembering to, like, take care of your basic needs, and also just not giving up.

Just, it’s gonna be hard. Everyone’s in, everyone is, uh, in a lot, lot of pain. So it’s not just you. Everyone around you, everyone is in massive pain, and you just gotta keep your head down and think about all the training and all the sacrifices you made in your life to, like, just be on the start line at that race.

[00:20:23] Trevor Connor: Mm. Yeah. Well, you brought up actually one that I think is really important, which is if you’re doing a hour and a half, two-hour race, you can have strength imbalances, you can have issues, positional issues, that really aren’t gonna show up that much. If you’re doing a five, six-hour event that’s-

[00:20:41] Lauren De Crescenzo: Get a bike fit

[00:20:42] Trevor Connor: very stren- strenuous.

[00:20:44] Lauren De Crescenzo: Get a bike fit, yeah.

[00:20:44] Trevor Connor: I’m sure you’re, you, I mean, I’m glad you brought that up. I’m sure doing that 10, 15 minutes of strength work every morning probably makes a huge difference in that.

[00:20:52] Lauren De Crescenzo: Oh, for sure. It’s really great for, yeah, injury prevention. Knock on wood, I’ve been injury-free this year so far.

Knock on wood.

[00:21:02] Chris Case: Ben, you are Not every day is a Saturday for you, but every day is like a half work day Friday for Ben Delaney, right? So you ride more than the average bear, let’s put it that

[00:21:14] Ben Delaney: way. That’s all I, that’s all I do is ride my bike if you ask the internet.

[00:21:17] Chris Case: Yeah.

[00:21:18] Ben Delaney: That’s awesome. It’s like Ae- Aeros- Aerosmith Permanent Vacation over here.

Yeah. I don’t even know what day it is.

[00:21:23] Chris Case: I’m just out riding my bike. But, but, but the same question for you. What, what do you find… Because you’ve had success at the amateur level at some of these same bike races. You’ve come in second at Unbound 100, if I’m not mistaken. Maybe you won SBT at some point in your career.

Let’s call it a career- … as a gravel racer. What’s the, not the bare minimum, but what are your ingredients for having a successful gravel race of a significant distance?

[00:21:53] Ben Delaney: Yeah, I’ve won my age group a few times at some of the different races, which is a far cry from winning the overall. I have won the overall at Steamboat just by going in a different distance altogether.

That’s always a good recipe for success. Like when Lauren and Sophia and Keegan go on this distance, you make a hard right and go on the other distance. All of a sudden the pace eases off considerably. So pro tip, don’t do the pro distance. Don’t do the pro distance. Don’t do the pros. Don’t race with the

[00:22:17] Lauren De Crescenzo: pros.

Right. I was- Perfect. Yeah … I was thinking about doing the, like the family ride at Unbound. I would totally win the family ride. Yeah.

[00:22:25] Ben Delaney: Yeah. Yeah, no, I bet… Lauren is, is, it’s her career. She is training and racing to win, right? For us amateurs, we want to succeed as we define it and have a good time and not put ourselves in the hospital, right?

But there’s also the constraints of reality, whether that’s our own physical capabilities or our family commitments or job commitments and all this, right? So I think some of this comes down to just get as much volume in as you can ahead of time, take a little bit of a rest, and then show up with a positive attitude, and that sounds stupid and overly simplistic, but in, in a lot of ways, that’s kind of what it is, right?

Whether it’s like this past weekend at Unbound, for instance, the… From the pros to the Janes and the Joes, they could have trained with all manner of specificity for what they thought the day would hold, and then come hour six, you’re standing in a- … cow poopy field of mud and gunk-

[00:23:21] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yep …

[00:23:22] Ben Delaney: with something in your hands that used to resemble a bicycle and may still be a bike under there.

And, and at that point it’s not like, well, did I… You know, how many sets of like this versus this VO2 did I do? Was I three seconds over or three seconds under? It’s like, you know, can you restrain yourself from having a temper tantrum?

[00:23:37] Lauren De Crescenzo: Mm-hmm. Can you keep your cool? So what-

[00:23:39] Ben Delaney: Unclog your wheels, yeah. Keep your wits about you and keep moving forward, and I think some of that Is the, that’s part of the challenge that attracts people to events like Unbound Gravel and keeps them coming back is that, yeah, there’s c- there’s certainly, there’s a huge physical component to it, right?

And that’s what you’re testing that, but you’re also testing, you know, resolve and all these kind of corny sounding things. But that is a big part of it also. And things are always gonna get sideways. You’re gonna get sick ahead of the race. You’re not be able to train as much, but you show up on race day and

[00:24:10] Chris Case: You’re describing a lot of the mental aspects of racing and the resilience and reframing and things like that are words that a psychologist might use.

When you’re out in a field covered in poop, that’s not what you’re thinking. You’re just thinking, “How am I gonna get through this? When am I gonna get out of this? How much longer do I have to do this?” Right? In your experience, is it– are you working on those aspects? Like w- by working, I mean, are you thinking about those things ahead of time or, or have you just gained the experience over time to know that, eh, this stuff is a part of the game.

I’m playing this game. It’s gonna end. I’m just gonna have as much fun with it as I can. We’re all in it together, and just have a– you’re just kind of a positive attitude type guy to begin with. Is that what it comes down to?

[00:25:00] Ben Delaney: I think that some of– I mean, and this is based on me speaking with riders like Lauren over the years, right?

So I did an interview with Svenja Betz on Sunday, who won the XL 367 miles. It took her 27 hours plus. She walked. Lauren, she walked for six hours of that. Oh, man. Lightning storms, thunderstorms. Most people quit. Oh. And she’s a very– I don’t know her super well, but m- meeting her a couple of years ago, and then before the event and after the event, and then hearing her competitors like Maddie Betz, who finished– Maddie Betz, who finished second to her, just remarking on how upbeat she seems to always be.

Like, okay, what’s the, what’s the secret here, Svenja? Like, how, like how are you doing this? ‘Cause you look at her bike and she’s got– she had two things visible from the saddle. One is a little piece of, looks like masking tape with a little smile drawn on it. Just keep smiling.

[00:25:58] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah.

[00:25:58] Ben Delaney: And then another is a sticker.

A cutesy little sticker of a turtle on roller skates with a big grin on its face. And, and she’s also won Badlands. She had won Choca 560. And so I asked her, like, “Yeah, well, what is it?” She said, “Well, yeah, when you look down at, and you see this little turtle, and he’s always smiling. You’re stuck in mud, and it’s lightning, and there’s a little turtle smiling back at you.”

So it’s just, uh, I took that to mean that like she has these little- Reference points to re, you know, reset and keep going. And like, and it’s not like a positive attitude is enough to get you through if you haven’t been on your bicycle training, right? It’s not like a, an either/or. But I’m sure Lauren has stories also of like people who are very talented physically and have done a lot of training physically, and then something gets sideways, and then they get stuck in that moment.

And it doesn’t matter what their FTP is or their maximal five watt power output is. If they’re in- If

[00:26:52] Lauren De Crescenzo: you can’t think on your feet, if you can’t handle- … if you can’t, if you can’t think on your pedals, then it doesn’t matter just how good your fitness is. Yeah. Have

[00:27:01] Chris Case: you worked with a sports psychologist at all to train this aspect of your racing and your attitude to be able to reframe in those moments, or is it just based on experience?

[00:27:11] Lauren De Crescenzo: I would say that’s one of my better strengths is like the mental aspect, and it’s not because I’ve really worked with a sports psychologist. I have a little bit with Julie Emerman. She’s great. Mm-hmm. But like overall she’s not teaching me like mental tenacity or resilience. I think, I hate to always bring it back to this, but 10 years ago, my nearly fatal traumatic brain injury kind of reframed everything for me just in life.

And- Mm-hmm … I’m able to have a much better relationship with physical pain. It’s very different. I used to think it was horrible and I was suffering, and, “Oh, no, when will this end?” But then the TBI really made me realize that it’s only pain. I choose to put myself in this pain, and it’ll be over whenever I want it to be, so why not just roll with it and-

[00:27:58] Chris Case: I mean, I think-

see

[00:27:59] Lauren De Crescenzo: just how far I can take it.

[00:28:00] Chris Case: I think that’s a lesson for anybody to learn is that it’s a choice. Yeah. And if you’re out there and you’re choosing to do it, why not be positive about it? Why not embrace it? Why not say, “It’s not really suffering, it’s just part of the journey that I’m on”? I

[00:28:15] Lauren De Crescenzo: mean, you paid to be there.

[00:28:16] Chris Case: You paid to be

[00:28:17] Lauren De Crescenzo: there. It’s not suffering. That’s…

[00:28:18] Ben Delaney: Lauren, I have a distinct memory of you at, maybe it’s not, it was either Mid South or Unbound, but it has to be Unbound. But it was blowing a gale, and I was in a group, six or seven dudes, and we were fully echeloned across the road and grouching each other and grouching ourselves and having a hard go of it.

And you came cruising along by yourself, riding solo, and you had aerobars on, but one had gotten, like, floppy, so you had, like, pointed back- Oh, I remember

[00:28:42] Lauren De Crescenzo: that. Yeah, yeah. 22. Yeah. …

[00:28:43] Ben Delaney: pointed back towards yourself, so you had, like, a Chris Case narwhal sort of situation with a single aerobar pointed forward. I remember

[00:28:49] Lauren De Crescenzo: that exact moment.

[00:28:51] Ben Delaney: Mm-hmm. And you were riding in the upwind side, and you came by and you cheered. We looked at you like, “What in the…” Like, how is this one rider passing six of us? And then you were cheering. You’re like, “You guys are doing great.” And then you dropped all of us, didn’t sit in for a second, just, like, cruised on by, “You guys are doing great.”

We’re like, “We’re not doing great. We’re passing hard time.”

[00:29:10] Lauren De Crescenzo: Right. And I’m just, like, slanted on my aerobars. Yeah.

[00:29:13] Ben Delaney: But, you know, like, clearly something had gone sideways mechanically. Like, one aerobar was totally off.

[00:29:17] Lauren De Crescenzo: Back when we had aerobars, yeah.

[00:29:18] Ben Delaney: But yeah, I don’t s- I can’t imagine that was something you had trained for.

[00:29:23] Lauren De Crescenzo: No.

[00:29:23] Ben Delaney: Right? But that was just a resilient, like, just keep it rolling, and also helps with, with the fact that you’ve got a huge engine and can just be dieseling along at power eight or whatever that was.

[00:29:34] Lauren De Crescenzo: I have really good eight-hour power, nine-hour power. Yeah. It’s probably my best power profile, actually.

[00:29:42] Trevor Connor: So you used a word that I’m glad that you used, ’cause it sounds like this is really what it’s about, which is tenacity.

[00:29:48] Lauren De Crescenzo: Right.

[00:29:49] Trevor Connor: Which is a little different from positive thinking. Sure. I mean, positive thinking’s part of that, but it seems like this is a giant tenacity test.

[00:29:57] Lauren De Crescenzo: It, it is.

[00:29:58] Chris Case: It’s an eating contest and a tenacity test. And-

[00:29:59] Trevor Connor: And a

[00:30:00] Lauren De Crescenzo: nasty eating contest. So

[00:30:02] Trevor Connor: here’s my question. Is tenacity a just inbred trait, or is it something that you can learn?

[00:30:09] Lauren De Crescenzo: I bet if you were to the sports psychologist. I mean, I think it can be learned. I think the way I learned it, I would not recommend doing it that way. Like, with the traumatic brain injury, do not recommend. Don’t do that. Don’t do that.

[00:30:20] Trevor Connor: It’s not worth it. This show is not recommending you intentionally

[00:30:25] Jared Berg: get TBI.

No. Yeah, that’s pretty, pretty

[00:30:25] Lauren De Crescenzo: obvious. No, that’ll change your brain in all kinds of ways. Just don’t do it. I also think it is just part of my personality, even before the TBI. Mm-hmm. I’ve just always been, like… I don’t know. I was a super overachiever in high school and ran cross-country, and I was just one of those kids.

Went to Emory, went to grad school, all the things. So it’s just very natural for me to be like, “Okay. Never give up. Never give up.”

[00:30:50] Chris Case: You’re not saying it needs to be an innate quality in order for you to be a good gravel racer, that you have to have this innate ability to have tenacity. But it certainly helps.

[00:31:00] Lauren De Crescenzo: It certainly helps.

[00:31:01] Chris Case: Yeah.

[00:31:02] Lauren De Crescenzo: I think just to even line up at a gravel race, you probably have some level of tenacity already inbred- Mm-hmm. Yeah … to be attracted to this sport.

[00:31:10] Trevor Connor: That’s what I was gonna say. I mean, part of it’s also with the terrain, the length of the event. I don’t think, and, and correct me on this ’cause I haven’t done an Unbound, but I think if you got to the finish line and you had absolutely no issues, that would be a surprise.

Shocking. Versus getting to the finish line and being like, “Oh, this went wrong, that went wrong. I’m shocked.” It’s like, no, that’s probably going to happen at some point. And part of the tenacity is going, “Okay, this is broken. Now let’s figure out how to get through it.”

[00:31:38] Lauren De Crescenzo: Right. That’s what I had to do on Saturday.

[00:31:41] Chris Case: I think that’s part- Yeah … of the attraction-

[00:31:44] Trevor Connor: Mm-hmm …

[00:31:44] Chris Case: in some ways, is that things are gonna go sideways, and you get to problem solve out there, whether it’s physical, mechanical, mental- Emot-

[00:31:54] Lauren De Crescenzo: emotional. …

[00:31:55] Chris Case: emotional, all of those things, and the highs are higher because the lows are lower, and the problem-solving aspect of being self-sufficient is really attractive to a lot of people that do it And this is why I’m so surprised you’ve never done it.

There’s- That

[00:32:11] Trevor Connor: didn’t exist when I

[00:32:12] Chris Case: was at my- I know, but you love, there’s nothing you love more than a big, stupid ride. Yeah. And what is gravel racing but a big, stupid ride in a, in a lot of ways. The thousands-year

[00:32:20] Trevor Connor: course race. This existed 15 years ago, I would’ve given up road cycling and done this.

[00:32:24] Chris Case: Yeah.

[00:32:25] Trevor Connor: This is like climbing or racing Flagstaff.

[00:32:26] Chris Case: Now, now, now road racing and gravel cycling are almost merging, so it’s time.

[00:32:31] Trevor Connor: Chris and I did a race up Flagstaff, and right at the start, like he says, “Go,” we both sprint, and my handlebar snapped in half. Oh, God.

[00:32:41] Chris Case: Yeah. This is the small stupid ride. This is not a big stupid ride.

This is

[00:32:45] Trevor Connor: a small- This is a small stupid ride, but I just looked at it and went, “Well, the handlebar tape is still holding it together,” and I just kept racing, holding one of the handle- half of my handlebar. I’m like-

[00:32:57] Lauren De Crescenzo: You’d be, you’d be really good at gravel. It’s the

[00:33:00] Trevor Connor: kind of things you- That, that’s what I was thinking.

I’m like- … us, you gotta do … this is what you gotta do.

[00:33:03] Chris Case: There’s something else you mentioned early on in the conversation of when we asked what did you do when you were a full-time employee, and you mentioned the getting off the bike. Now you have all the time in the world. You don’t have to ride all the time.

How much strength work are you doing off the bike as a professional?

[00:33:23] Lauren De Crescenzo: Oh, strength work. Well, like I said earlier, I, quote, roll around on the floor slash do all like the strength and mobility exercises probably for 45 minutes, an hour every morning. It’s just part of my like routine. I have breakfast. I do some mobility exercises.

I work with, uh, Kinesis Strength here in Boulder, and they have a really good app that I’m able to follow along, enter all my key events, and z- like designs-

[00:33:48] Chris Case: Mm-hmm …

[00:33:48] Lauren De Crescenzo: this thing for me because it’s, it makes it easy to do the strength and mobility while on the road- Mm-hmm … with like very minimal equipment ’cause you can like set it so that you have no equipment.

So it gives you all the good stuff to do. But yeah, I would say maybe an hour a day.

[00:34:04] Chris Case: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:04] Lauren De Crescenzo: But again, I have all the time in the world now, so.

[00:34:06] Chris Case: Right. Yeah. If, yeah, if you, if you were that immature, would you sacrifice a day of riding per week to do strength training, or would you sacrifice two days a week and instead do strength training if you had limited time?

[00:34:19] Lauren De Crescenzo: I actually wouldn’t do strength training on my recovery day.

[00:34:23] Chris Case: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:23] Lauren De Crescenzo: I would merge them together. I, yeah, I never do… I like stretch and everything on like recovery days, but I don’t do strength training on recovery days or even like easy days. I don’t

[00:34:34] Chris Case: do that. Just nothing. Rest means rest.

[00:34:36] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah. Rest is rest.

You can stretch a little if you’re feeling a little sore. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, strength training, I’ll try to like double that up with like interval work- Mm-hmm … like hard workouts.

[00:34:47] Chris Case: Right.

[00:34:48] Lauren De Crescenzo: Mm-hmm. The plyometrics. The hard days are

[00:34:49] Chris Case: hard, and the easy days are easy.

[00:34:51] Lauren De Crescenzo: Exactly. Yeah. You don’t wanna like merge it all.

[00:34:53] Ben Delaney: Would you do the weights before your intervals or after? Does, does the sequence matter?

[00:34:59] Lauren De Crescenzo: I’ll do it before actually, just ’cause I like getting it all done in the morning. I’m sure there have been studies that show that it’s better after, and others have shown better before. But my personal preference is to do it as part of, like, my waking up, like fueling and drinking coffee and stretching and-

[00:35:18] Chris Case: Having that routine

[00:35:19] Lauren De Crescenzo: is-

doing weight training …

[00:35:20] Chris Case: is probably pretty key.

[00:35:21] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah. I mean- It makes my privateer life seem a little bit more structured. Mm-hmm.

[00:35:27] Trevor Connor: Now, what about the buildup to, uh, an event? I mean, if you’re doing a, a three, four-hour road race, there’s the typical tapering strategy, increase intensity, really bring down the volume.

Is that the same sort of strategy you’re gonna use for a very long gravel race, or are you gonna keep up the volume leading into the event?

[00:35:47] Lauren De Crescenzo: It’s interesting you say that. I… Yeah, for road races, yeah, it’s a very s- standard formula, like off two days before, then openers and everything. But, like, I’ll still do that.

I’ll do openers, maybe not as intense as I would for a road race, but I’ll, like, I’ll open it up the day before the race. I’m not doing massive volume leading, like, in the days leading up to it. Like, that week from, like, that Monday of Unbounds to Friday was pretty chill. It was- Mm-hmm,

[00:36:15] Trevor Connor: mm-hmm …

[00:36:16] Lauren De Crescenzo: rather chill. Uh, just a few, like, midweek openers, but nothing, like, too…

I’m not building fitness anymore, so I’m just, like, sharpening the sword and making sure I just don’t mess everything up and … But yeah, road race, it’s, I think it is very similar to road and mountain, and just don’t go too, don’t go too ham the week of the race. Don’t go too hard.

[00:36:41] Trevor Connor: Come in well-rested.

[00:36:42] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah, not too s- a little bit open, but not completely rested, just a little bit open.

Like, the higher, the shorter explosive efforts that are gonna just, like, give you fatigue.

[00:36:55] Chris Case: Ben, I’m curious because you look like somebody who works out, but- … I’ve never heard you say anything about the weight training that you do. What does that c- look like for Ben Delaney, man of- Pajamas in the midday sun in Nebraska

[00:37:12] Ben Delaney: Calling me out.

Calling me out.

[00:37:13] Lauren De Crescenzo: No, no. Um-

[00:37:14] Ben Delaney: No

[00:37:14] Lauren De Crescenzo: one saw his pajamas.

[00:37:19] Ben Delaney: I, I am someone who is religious about doing strength training when I’m injured and s- a physical therapist has given me some things to do. Yes.

[00:37:28] Chris Case: Right.

[00:37:28] Ben Delaney: And then I tape it. So all the time,

[00:37:30] Trevor Connor: you’re basically

[00:37:32] Chris Case: saying. Then I tape it. Every single day. Zing. Yeah. This is why- Zing … he gets injured. Zing. So he gets a prescription for strength training.

[00:37:40] Ben Delaney: Yes. And so over the years, c- me coming back from various stories, I’ll be doing different things, and oh, uh, every time, my wife was, of 25 years, who’s been encouraging me to do yoga for more than 25 years, will be like, “You realize what you’re doing?” If she sees me, like, grunting away on the floor, she’s like, “You’re doing yoga.”

I’m like, “No,

[00:37:56] Chris Case: I’m not. This is physical therapy. I’m doing manly stuff.”

[00:38:00] Ben Delaney: She’s like, “You’re doing yoga.” And so apropos of both of those, recently I have started doing yoga somewhat regularly. There, there’s a woman who has a YouTube channel called Yoga with Adrienne.

[00:38:13] Chris Case: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:13] Ben Delaney: And has 11 million subscribers or something like this, and they’re like the whole Project Echelon team will use her videos, and evidently many millions of other people around the world.

And so now that’s not so much of, like, moving heavy weights around in a weight room, but it is trying to make time to do a little bit of complimentary-

[00:38:34] Chris Case: Mm-hmm …

[00:38:35] Ben Delaney: strength and conditioning work for just even simple things that don’t get addressed when you’re just sitting on a bicycle pedaling So that’s definitely an area, uh, an area of improvement for me

going forward. And as much as I hate it, yeah, the, what’s- what they say about this, the older you get, the more important that is. Um, the routine I think is the helpful bit and something I struggle with. And having, for me, having someone tell me what to do, Same. I think that might be s-

[00:39:06] Lauren De Crescenzo: Same.

[00:39:07] Ben Delaney: Yeah. I’m sure Lauren can make her own interval.

She’s been doing this for years and years, but it’s helpful to have a third-party person like Elliot be like, “Okay, Lauren, here’s your, here’s the recipe. Go cook it up.” You’re like, “Great.”

[00:39:18] Lauren De Crescenzo: Easy, easy. Um. I, yeah, I don’t want that- When am I done? … that responsibility.

[00:39:22] Ben Delaney: Yeah, so.

[00:39:22] Lauren De Crescenzo: Leave it to the professionals. Yep.

[00:39:24] Ben Delaney: Yeah.

[00:39:24] Lauren De Crescenzo: Mm-hmm.

[00:39:25] Ben Delaney: Yeah. So, like, when my daughter’s in town, she’s always got a new workout routine at the gym, and I’ll just mimic her as best as I can- Yeah … until I flame out. Um, and so, like, I c- I could do that by myself, but I’d just much prefer to just go along for the ride. Right? So it’s-

[00:39:38] Jared Berg: Mm …

[00:39:39] Ben Delaney: queuing up a 20-minute yoga video.

Here in Nebraska, was doing that this morning, and that’s a helpful

[00:39:44] Lauren De Crescenzo: thing. Right. Yeah, I was doing my strength and conditioning on my Kinesis app ’cause I don’t like making it up by myself.

[00:39:52] Ben Delaney: Yeah.

[00:39:53] Chris Case: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think that is true for a lot of people. They just- Mm-hmm … “Hey, give me a recipe. I will follow it.

Give me instructions. Give me the exercise routine to do. I’ll do it. I’ll check it off the list. I’ll move on to the next thing.” They don’t wanna put a whole lot of thought into it. Th- there’s literally thousands of various movements and exercises you can do with weights, without weights, body weight, all of that sort of stuff.

How do you pick and choose? I think that can be overwhelming for a lot of people. So it’s nice to have a routine to go to or an app to go to that you just, “Okay, tell me what I should do. I’ve got this thing going on,” or, “I’m this age,” you know? Like, put in some parameters and it spits out a menu, and you go with it.

And yeah, the routine aspect, fitting it in the morning like you do, incorporating it into the part of the day on a regular basis gets you in that, that mindset that, “This is something I will do. This is something I’m going to do.” It’s helpful- Right … and it just makes it easier to do it in that way. And I think that reducing the f- barriers, reducing that friction- Mm-hmm

is a really big aspect of forming a good habit, which is what it comes down to, habits.

[00:41:08] Jared Berg: What if you could optimize your nutrition to perform even better in your sport? Well, you can. I’m Jared Berg, and I’m a registered dietician and exercise physiologist with Fast Talk Labs. I can help you with your personal sports nutrition, or you can take control of your own nutrition through my new eight-week sports nutrition course.

Learn more at fasttalklabs.com. Look for athlete services and sports nutrition.

[00:41:31] Trevor Connor: So I’m gonna shift us to the next part of the outline, and I gotta call this out because I love when Chris does an outline versus me. If I was writing the outline and we wanted to talk about nutrition, I’d title the section, like, Nutritional Strategies or, or something very science-y.

Chris just wrote Gear and Grub.

[00:41:49] Lauren De Crescenzo: Nice. Very gravel-coded.

[00:41:53] Chris Case: That’s right. That’s right. You know, I may have borrowed those words from someone.

[00:41:57] Trevor Connor: So let’s move on to grub.

[00:41:58] Chris Case: Grub. Talk about the grub. Let’s move on to grub. Yes. Lauren, would you like to start? You mentioned it before. You’ve got a very dialed-

[00:42:07] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yes

[00:42:08] Chris Case: nutrition plan for your race. I, I have a

[00:42:09] Lauren De Crescenzo: grub, I have a grub sponsor that

[00:42:11] Chris Case: helps me- You have a grub sponsor … with my nutrition

[00:42:12] Lauren De Crescenzo: planning.

[00:42:12] Chris Case: That’s right. Yes. How did you come to- understand that, what did you say, 90 to 100 grams of carbohydrates was what you needed.

[00:42:22] Lauren De Crescenzo: Right. I think it was a lot of trial and error.

[00:42:24] Chris Case: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:24] Lauren De Crescenzo: Um, I mean, the year I went Unbounds, like, before the carb revolution that we’re seeing these days.

[00:42:30] Chris Case: Yeah.

[00:42:30] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah. I think I had 30 grams of carbs an hour in the form of, like, a Clif Bar for kids. Hmm. Clif Bar. Yeah, it was a Z Bar. Z Bars. I had 12 Z Bars that year. 12, yeah.

[00:42:40] Chris Case: 12

[00:42:41] Lauren De Crescenzo: Z Bars for 12 hours of racing.

[00:42:43] Chris Case: That’s, uh, not that much.

[00:42:45] Trevor Connor: No.

[00:42:45] Lauren De Crescenzo: No. They’re 24 grams of carbs per thing. I mean, I had carbs in my drink mix, but not that many carbs. So… And, like, that year, I won. I did it in 12 hours and, like, two minutes. And this year, I was in sixth and did it in, like, 10:45 with a train stop. So more

[00:43:04] Chris Case: like- With a train stop and probably more mud than 2021.

[00:43:06] Lauren De Crescenzo: Oh, way more mud. Yeah. Way, way more mud. What is it

[00:43:08] Chris Case: with you and getting caught in trains? You have like-

[00:43:09] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah. Remember, remember Missoula that

[00:43:12] Chris Case: one time? … some sort

[00:43:12] Lauren De Crescenzo: of a magnetic attraction. I know. Yeah. We had to, like, restart the whole race at the train stop. It, it was there for seven minutes. Yeah. The train was seven minutes.

I was,

[00:43:19] Ben Delaney: I was happy ’cause it allowed me to recatch. You were not happy because it allowed jokers like me to recatch when we were already clear.

[00:43:24] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah. Yeah. Get out of here, jokers. I was here first. Ah. Yeah, that train, that train was the longest one I’ve ever seen.

[00:43:34] Trevor Connor: Oh, that’s gotta be painful, just watching it.

[00:43:37] Lauren De Crescenzo: Oh, my God. I was like, “Really?” And

[00:43:39] Trevor Connor: knowing everybody’s coming.

[00:43:40] Lauren De Crescenzo: Really? And I’m like, “How could I get around this m- I’m not… I, I’m gonna get hit by a train. I am not going around this, like… No.” Yeah,

[00:43:46] Chris Case: yeah.

[00:43:46] Lauren De Crescenzo: You get desperate in the moment though. You’re like, “Uh, could I maybe get around a tr- You can’t get around a train.”

I, I asked Christy to build a ramp over all the trains for next year, the race director- Mm-hmm … Christy Moan. She said she’ll work on it. It’ll be a, a one-day ramp. Hmm. And then she’ll tear it down the next day.

[00:44:04] Chris Case: Jumps.

[00:44:05] Lauren De Crescenzo: She’ll make some jumps for, uh, next year- Nice … over the train crossings.

[00:44:08] Chris Case: That’s not a liability.

[00:44:10] Trevor Connor: What, what was the year at Paris-Roubaix where there was a breakaway, and they came up to a train, and the gates were down? Many. That’s

[00:44:15] Chris Case: happened many times. It happened

[00:44:16] Trevor Connor: this year. And they crossed with the gates down and got disqualified.

[00:44:19] Chris Case: Tadej did that this year, and he got undisqualified, or he didn’t get disqualified even though he broke the rules.

[00:44:25] Trevor Connor: Okay.

[00:44:26] Chris Case: And several other people did it too. Yeah, that’s a thing. I mean, it wasn’t… Like, the train’s not gonna stop for a bunch- No, it’s not … of cyclists. No. It’s pretty dangerous.

[00:44:35] Lauren De Crescenzo: It’s very dangerous.

[00:44:36] Chris Case: Yeah. So, okay, so you had 12 Z bars in 2021. What’d you have this year?

[00:44:42] Lauren De Crescenzo: Ooh, yeah, I just did a little blog about this, just how many carbs I had.

I ha- I started with, like, three and a half liters of high-carb mix at 300 or 400 grams of carbs just in the drink.

[00:44:55] Chris Case: Did you wear- Or not that many. Sorry- Did you wear- … let me recalculate … a hydration vest in 2021?

[00:44:59] Lauren De Crescenzo: I did.

[00:45:00] Chris Case: Okay.

[00:45:00] Lauren De Crescenzo: I did, and I did this year as well. Mm-hmm. Well, I had a built-in bladder in my skin suit.

Yeah. ‘Cause I had 1.5 in my skin suit. I had a liter bottle. I had a s- 750. I filled them all with high-carb mix and extra electrolytes, and that was many carbs. I- that’s probably 300 carbs, and then I had nine gels in my pockets- Mm-hmm … just to get to aid station one, which was at mile 80, each with about 45 grams of carbs per gel.

[00:45:27] Jared Berg: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:27] Lauren De Crescenzo: So it’s way more than those Z bars I was eating. Yeah. And but- Ton. Yes. My time was a lot better than 2021. I was good. And then, yeah, I got some, at aid station two and three, I got more bottles. I got more gels. I started, uh, with the Nootropics, the highly caffeinated SiS gels with 200 milligrams of caffeine.

I did that in the last part of the race ’cause I’ve made the mistake- Mm-hmm … of having that too early, having caffeine too early, and then my, like, like, it, I think it de- well, it does dehydrate you- Mm-hmm … uh, the caffeine. So you gotta wait until-

[00:46:07] Chris Case: Yeah … there- It’s a strategic decision when you deploy the-

[00:46:09] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah

[00:46:10] Chris Case: the ca- the highly-

[00:46:11] Lauren De Crescenzo: When you deploy … caffeinated. Yes. Yeah. So I deployed that a little bit later. Mm-hmm. And actually, this race I had neutral SiS-flavored gels the entire time, which I really, I think that helped me a lot ’cause I think, yeah, palate fatigue is definitely real. Mm-hmm. Um, if I’m, I don’t know, eating, like, strawberries and lime and birthday cake- Yeah

I’d rather just have unflavored carbohydrates just to, like, get the job done and just straight to my bloodstream, just more- Mm-hmm … more carbs. Mm-hmm. More glucose.

[00:46:42] Chris Case: Yeah.

[00:46:42] Trevor Connor: I never get tired of birthday cake.

[00:46:44] Lauren De Crescenzo: Oh,

[00:46:45] Chris Case: also keep

[00:46:45] Lauren De Crescenzo: In

[00:46:47] Chris Case: gel form

[00:46:47] Lauren De Crescenzo: or- In gel form … real stuff? In gel form, yeah, it’s not quite the same.

[00:46:51] Trevor Connor: Actually, the ice cream.

I don’t eat ice cream, but if I walk over to Pearl Street and the ice cream vendor there has birthday cake ice cream, I have to do it.

[00:47:01] Chris Case: Weird.

[00:47:01] Trevor Connor: I’m sorry. It’s just a- You

[00:47:03] Chris Case: should apologize, yes.

[00:47:04] Lauren De Crescenzo: It’s a must. Weird, weird flex, but okay.

[00:47:09] Chris Case: You don’t know Trevor. He’s got a lot of weird flexes. Yes,

[00:47:12] Trevor Connor: I

[00:47:12] Lauren De Crescenzo: do.

[00:47:15] Trevor Connor: So what does your dinner and breakfast look like leading up to the race?

[00:47:20] Lauren De Crescenzo: Right. Actually, for years I was on the pancake train- Mm … eating pancakes before all the big races, but I just can’t. At Unbounds I had white rice with maple syrup and chocolate chips for breakfast. Like the most simple carbs, like no fiber, no nothing, no protein, just carbs and sugar, carbs. And it worked. I felt much better than I did off just the pancakes, the gluten-free pancakes.

It was like, “Oh, God. What’s going on- Save the

[00:47:53] Chris Case: pancakes

[00:47:53] Lauren De Crescenzo: for after- … what’s going on in there?” …

[00:47:54] Chris Case: the race.

[00:47:54] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I’m off the pancake train. And for dinner, what did I have? Uh, just more rice and carbs and pasta- … and burri- I had a burrito. Uh, I had a, what is it? A human size, a baby size burrito for lunch the day before.

At the, yeah, popular place in, uh, Emporia. Was eating a baby size burrito, and then just rice, then dessert rice. You can put anything on rice and it’s great. You can make it to taste however you want.

[00:48:25] Ben Delaney: It’s like the tofu of carbs.

[00:48:27] Lauren De Crescenzo: Exactly. There you go. The tofu of carbs.

[00:48:29] Chris Case: Mm.

[00:48:29] Lauren De Crescenzo: Do recommend.

[00:48:31] Ben Delaney: What about gear?

[00:48:33] Chris Case: Yeah. I…

Question for Ben here. Having reviewed so many gravel specific things in your life, I wonder if you could Very briefly describe the kit you would bring on a gravel race. What are the bare minimums you need for your first gravel race, or your, maybe not the first one, but the one where you want to succeed?

[00:48:58] Ben Delaney: A bike you’re familiar with and nutrition that you’re familiar with. To quote Lauren’s coach, Elliot, on the question of like, “What’s the best tire? What’s the best tire?” Elliot’s got a great answer, which is, “The one that you feel most comfortable with.” And that kind of like with Trevor and Chris, you guys, a corollary would be like, what’s the perfect race day workout or the perfect race day thing?

I think that’s the same with gear. There is no one-

[00:49:23] Chris Case: Mm-hmm …

[00:49:23] Ben Delaney: magic setup. You know, just getting comfortable with your gear is the way to go. And a wide tire clearance is certainly a trend, and for good reason. I’m not saying that you have to go out and buy a new bike by any means, but if you don’t have a bicycle and you’re looking at it, then that’s something to consider for a couple reasons.

One is mud. And the other is just lets you experiment with a wider range of tires. And a wide tire might not be the thing that you like the most, but something I hear from a lot of riders is that they’re curious about what a bigger tire would feel like, but they can’t fit it in-

[00:49:54] Chris Case: Mm-hmm …

[00:49:54] Ben Delaney: to, to try it. So having the, a 2.2 is the biggest really out there.

A lot of riders are on 50 millimeter tires, and that is perfectly adequate. That’s what a, a lot of the people on the podium were this year.

[00:50:09] Chris Case: You’re talking specifically about Unbound, correct?

[00:50:12] Ben Delaney: I was thinking in general. Uh, there’s a, there’s a range of stuff. I’m in Lincoln, Nebraska, home of Gravel Worlds, and I remember reading Chris, the book that Nick Legen wrote back in the day about gravel races, and it was quoting past winners.

So for this one, it was quoting Neal Shirley talking about his, I wanna say like 30 mil tires that he was using, maybe 32s, ’cause it’s pretty smooth, like smoother than Steamboat’s famed and trademarked champagne gravel. So there’s, yeah, there’s a variety of surfaces out there. But if you’ve got a lot of clearance, you can always go skinnier.

If you don’t have much clearance, you can’t go wider, so.

[00:50:50] Chris Case: I remember my first Unbound, wasn’t even known as Unbound at that point. That was 2013.

[00:50:58] Ben Delaney: Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth.

[00:50:59] Chris Case: Right. Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, yes. And, uh, Nick Legen and I set up- My Sirium wheels that were not meant to be tubeless

[00:51:11] Ben Delaney: Ghetto tubeless

[00:51:12] Chris Case: with electrical tape the night before the race. No. So I could put my 33 Ushuaia, they were probably Clement at that point, 33s, probably pumped up to 50 PSI back then. I don’t know. It was not the ideal setup, but I didn’t have any problems. Wow. Didn’t have any problems- Yeah … believe it or not. There’s something to be said, this is the segue, there’s something to be said about technique.

Gravel racing isn’t technical in the sense that mountain biking is or cyclocross is. Mm. Mm. But you can cer- It can be.

[00:51:47] Ben Delaney: I don’t know, man. I don’t know, dude. You gotta come out and watch one of these races or, like, go back and watch the YouTube coverage of,

[00:51:54] Chris Case: of the race this year. I’m not saying it’s… I’m not saying- Yeah.

What I’m saying is there is technique involved. It might not be- Yes … to the level of a World Cup mountain bike race, but there- Correct … there is a lot of technique. And people, some people just bash, uh, into everything, and they are definitely going to be more prone to flatting. But if you are able to choose good lines, and ride smoothly, and do some of these things, then you reduce your chances of having issues out there, whether it’s tires or broken derailleurs.

If you can choose lines that don’t-

[00:52:29] Ben Delaney: Mm-hmm …

[00:52:29] Chris Case: involve running into the mud bog that- Grass … grass is fast. Mm-hmm. All these things. So yeah, no, I’m de- definitely not discounting s- the skills of gravel racers. I’m saying there is skill involved.

[00:52:40] Ben Delaney: Mm-hmm.

[00:52:40] Chris Case: For both of you, the question is, again, is that something you work on at all?

Is it just something you’ve acquired based on all the miles you’ve done, on all the various terrain you’ve done? New Mexico gravel is different from- So different, yes … Nebraska da- gravel, and Colorado gravel, and Tuscher and the crush- crusher, and Tuscher’s got different stuff. So you’ve ha- got all that experience.

[00:53:04] Lauren De Crescenzo: It’s

[00:53:04] Chris Case: just you’ve developed skills over time Developed

[00:53:06] Lauren De Crescenzo: so many. I mean, it all comes down to, like, basic skills. I would say I have developed, like, lots of skills for my toolkit of skills over the last however long I’ve been doing this, 10 years now. I’m seeing all the different places, all the different types of gravel, different types of rocks, different types of roads.

Like, everything is ever so slightly different. And just having that experience, having done most of the big races multiple times. I wish I grew mountain biking. Unfortunately, I didn’t. I think it would really help my skills now. Mm. So if, yeah, just get the kids on bikes now, everyone. If you have- Yeah … kids, get them on a bike now.

Get them on a mountain bike. I feel like that would’ve really helped. I think that the skills I’ve developed in gravel has actually really helped me on the road. I’ve gotten even better at descending on the road, like a psycho. Mm-hmm. I’m like, “Oh, look, there’s no rocks in my way. I can do whatever I want now.”

[00:54:00] Jared Berg: Mm-hmm.

[00:54:01] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah.

So they’ve really complemented each other, but I think just, yeah, the experience and work with… I have worked with a skills coach before, and that helps. Just break it down, like the basics, ’cause yeah, I started mountain biking when I’m 32 years old, so I’m 35 now.

[00:54:20] Chris Case: Yeah.

[00:54:21] Lauren De Crescenzo: Just for the Lifetime Grand Prix.

[00:54:22] Chris Case: Right.

[00:54:22] Lauren De Crescenzo: So it’s been quite the learning curve trying to compete against people who’ve been doing this since they, before they could walk. So get all the kids on mountain bikes.

[00:54:30] Chris Case: Ben, I know that you do a lot of- Group rides. And I feel like that is not only good for the legs, but for the skills, and riding in packs on gravel roads is a different feeling when you’re not sure what’s coming around the corner, and you don’t know when people are gonna move out to avoid something.

So you do a lot of those group rides on road and dirt around here, and I would imagine you’d say that is an absolutely great way to gain some skills and get more comfortable before you do some races.

[00:55:02] Ben Delaney: Absolutely. The more you can practice, the more of the varied types of things you’re gonna encounter, the better off it’ll be, right?

So doing the volume is key, right? Gotta be able to pedal your bike. But if the first time you are experiencing coming into a corner with, as Lauren said, a few thousand of your best friends is- … at an event, that may be a little spooky.

[00:55:24] Lauren De Crescenzo: Your fitness no longer matters.

[00:55:25] Chris Case: Yeah.

[00:55:26] Ben Delaney: Right.

[00:55:26] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah.

[00:55:26] Chris Case: Right.

[00:55:27] Ben Delaney: So I, I did an Ironman exactly once, and it…

The swim portion was fairly terrifying. Oh, no.

[00:55:35] Lauren De Crescenzo: I’m

[00:55:36] Chris Case: Pelotona swimmer, so no. Yes. Swimming in a pool by yourself is different than swimming with a bunch of feet kicking you in the face- Yes … or potentially kicking you.

[00:55:44] Ben Delaney: Yeah. So at one point, I ended up holding onto a canoe for a little bit just to gather myself.

[00:55:48] Chris Case: Not have a panic attack.

[00:55:49] Ben Delaney: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so practicing that part definitely helps technique and comfort and whatnot. And Christine mentioned on having technique and not hitting things and seeing where you’re going. And later in the race, that’s a thing, but early in the race, you’re just one of many cattle in the stampeding herd, and there’s dust everywhere and-

[00:56:09] Chris Case: Yeah, you’re kinda at the whim of where the school of fish goes, and you’re just in it, right?

[00:56:14] Ben Delaney: Yes. And then so it’s not choosing, but reacting to what has been chosen for you. Yes. Yeah.

[00:56:21] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yes. Definitely.

[00:56:22] Ben Delaney: Um, and so practicing that in group rides, it’s not the, the same stakes necessarily. You know, like if… I was thinking back to this weekend with, if the group is four wide on going barreling down a road and there’s a giant puddle and the far left lane has a dry lane, and then the other three lanes choose, do I try to elbow my way into the left lane that’s barreling along?

Or do I take my chances and ride through this puddle that may be an inch deep, it may be three feet deep? Or do I slow down? Do I dismount? That’s a lot of stuff that needs to be kinda gambled on the fly. But for the lesser stakes, yeah, group rides can teach you that effect. Coming around the corner three wide How the inside line versus the outside line will go speed-wise and slippy-wise, and how much room you should give the people in front of you in case they decide to slide out and land on the floor in front of you.

[00:57:10] Lauren De Crescenzo: Right. I think it’s super important to, like, practice trusting the person. Well, f- being on a good wheel, you, yeah, it, you need to just suss it out a little bit. But being on a good wheel and, like, trusting that person’s line is really important, ’cause you can’t always see what’s ahead of you, and you just need to be able to put your faith in that person that they’re picking a good line.

So I like to follow some wheels that I trust.

[00:57:33] Chris Case: Yeah.

[00:57:33] Lauren De Crescenzo: I also don’t like going through the creek crossings first if I don’t have to, ’cause then I can see who gets stuck and who doesn’t get stuck. Mm-hmm. And, like, what the better line choice was.

[00:57:43] Chris Case: Yeah.

[00:57:44] Ben Delaney: Yeah. I mean, that’s one thing I, I love about boulders. W- a good way to get better is ride with people who are better than you.

So- Mm-hmm … trying to follow- Mm-hmm … Lauren will push me physically in terms of what my legs are doing, but also skills, or I might, may take a line just f- following her that I wouldn’t take by myself.

[00:58:01] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah.

[00:58:02] Ben Delaney: Like, well, sh- if she can do it, I can probably do it.

[00:58:04] Lauren De Crescenzo: Maybe. Probably. I mean, I ride a lot with one of my best friends, Alexis Carda, who’s, she’s the US marathon national champion for two years on the mountain bike.

So she’s, and she’s in Lifetime Grand Prix, and she’s, yeah, had amazing mountain bike results. But I like to, we push each other in the same way. Like, I’m all about the fitness and, like, the intervals and, like, let’s go hard, and she is teaching me. I’m following her and putting my faith in her to have more finesse.

Mm-hmm. She’s teaching me finesse.

[00:58:34] Trevor Connor: So I’ve got a couple questions for both of you, thinking as the person who has never done a gravel race and is thinking about doing their first, so the, the amateur who’s not- In there to win it, but to have the experience. With the gear, are they better off with a more bulletproof bike that’s comfortable that might cost them some watts, but they know the gear is gonna survive?

Or should they be trying to maximize the weight and everything on the bike so that they don’t have to put out as many watts and, and survive the day? So that would be my first question to you. Which way do you think is better to go with the gear?

[00:59:13] Lauren De Crescenzo: I’ll choose the second option, but it is my job, so. Right.

Yeah.

[00:59:18] Trevor Connor: Yeah. So I know you would. I’m just thinking about that person who’s going in for the first experience.

[00:59:24] Lauren De Crescenzo: Oh, definitely, I would say the first choice if you’re going in for the first time. I wouldn’t be maximizing watts and, like, coming down to the… Like, ’cause there’s so many other things that go into it, like we’ve been talking about.

Picking good lines, eating food. There’s just so many things that go into it that aren’t just the fitness and the bike. It’s everything all together.

[00:59:42] Trevor Connor: And likewise, if you’re doing your first or you’re on one of your first, should you be trying to get into the pack? Should you be riding with the group, or should you just be going in going, “I’m just gonna do my own thing, and every, people can pass me, whatever.

I’m just going to go my own pace and figure it out as I go”? I

[01:00:00] Lauren De Crescenzo: mean, I think it really just depends on your confidence level riding in a pack. If you are experienced, like, in group rides and road racing, I would say have fun. Be careful. Just do what you do on a group ride, just make believe you’re at a group ride.

I wouldn’t say you have to, like, hang back and give everyone their space, ’cause we’re all… Yeah, we’re all in it together.

[01:00:19] Chris Case: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think, Ben, you could probably speak to this, too. If you’re not expecting to be in the lead group, you’re probably… Take, for example, Unbound. You’re expecting to find yourself in a group at some point.

The question is what group that is, and when does it form? How many matches do you burn trying to stay in a group that pulls you along, and when do you sort of let that group go and say, “You know what? Can’t sustain this. Time to back off. Time to settle in. Find the group that’s my sustainable pace now.”

What- what’s the art of doing that? Do you have any tips there?

[01:01:00] Ben Delaney: Often the path is chosen for us.

[01:01:03] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:01:05] Ben Delaney: And that, as much as we’d all like to be in a different place, like the Hogwarts Sorting Hat gets passed around at a certain time, and then there you are.

[01:01:13] Chris Case: Mm.

[01:01:14] Ben Delaney: I mean, it depends on the course or the, the thing.

If it’s a Colorado- race like Bighorn Gravel, that could come pretty early as Alexis Scarlo is going at six watts per kilo and I and others are not, and then that’s the group you find yourself with. Sometimes it’s a crash splits the field and-

[01:01:34] Chris Case: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm …

[01:01:35] Ben Delaney: and then you find yourself in a d- different group, and then you’re now new buddies for the next few hours.

Have to decide, are you gonna try to bridge back to where you were or you just settle in? And I don’t know if there’s any, like, one-size-fits-all thing that applies to all situations, but yeah, often it’s decided for you.

[01:01:52] Chris Case: Yes.

[01:01:52] Ben Delaney: Yes. As to where you are. And then just there’s some good best practices apply of if you’re in a group, don’t be riding on the front the whole time just out of frustration.

[01:02:03] Chris Case: Right. And probably try not to be the one that’s hanging at the back doing no work either, ’cause you might not make friends that way, especially in a 12-hour gravel race.

[01:02:13] Ben Delaney: Yes. Lauren’s BFF, uh, spoke to this at, Cecily Decker, who got third at Unbound this weekend. She had a crash in the front group, and they waited for a beat for her to get back.

And because, in her words, because she is not the type to skip bowl. She had been doing- Yep. Mm-hmm … her share, and they knew when, if they waited for her, she’d get right back to it.

[01:02:35] Chris Case: Yeah. Prove your value for a group, and they will use that. Like, that is good information to understand how you’ll contribute going forward.

[01:02:44] Lauren De Crescenzo: Right. No, Cecily is, was super, super strong going into this race. After our little New Mexico training camp, she was, like She was dropping me some days, so You

[01:02:54] Chris Case: responded

[01:02:55] Lauren De Crescenzo: well to the volume, huh? I would, I would wait, I would wait for Cecily.

Yeah.

[01:03:01] Ben Delaney: Well, plus it’s just more fun if you’re there to see how you can go, you know, just race, race your bike and having fun with it. Not trying to be, like, super tactical and conservative.

[01:03:10] Chris Case: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:10] Lauren De Crescenzo: No, you can leave that to us. Leave it to us.

[01:03:12] Chris Case: Leave it

[01:03:13] Lauren De Crescenzo: to us. Christ. Yeah.

[01:03:15] Chris Case: Bringing their roadie tactics to gravel racing.

[01:03:18] Lauren De Crescenzo: Argh.

[01:03:21] Chris Case: Before we close out the episode, Lauren, I know you have something inside your guts that you want to get out.

[01:03:28] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yes. That you don’t want to get

[01:03:28] Chris Case: out. Why are you

[01:03:29] Trevor Connor: drinking the ginger ale?

[01:03:31] Lauren De Crescenzo: Oh, yes. This is not my normal drink. I don’t roll around with ginger ale. It was really muddy. There were a lot of cows.

I’m thinking that maybe, just maybe, I ingested a little bit of cow in the 10 and a half hour ride across Kansas. It happens to people.

[01:03:48] Chris Case: Oh, yeah.

[01:03:49] Lauren De Crescenzo: And I, my, my tummy is not happy. It was two, three days ago, and yeah, I’m on a new weight loss plan, the after Unbound weight loss plan. I wanted to go back to eating vegetables.

An involuntary weight loss plan. Yeah, the involuntary weight loss plan. I want to go back to eating vegetables and all these things, but I’m still on the-

[01:04:05] Chris Case: Mm …

[01:04:06] Lauren De Crescenzo: plain carbohydrate diet. I had rice and maple syrup for lunch today.

[01:04:09] Chris Case: Mm-hmm.

[01:04:10] Lauren De Crescenzo: And this ginger ale.

[01:04:11] Chris Case: Some of the hidden consequences of gravel racing.

Potential-

[01:04:14] Lauren De Crescenzo: Potential …

[01:04:15] Chris Case: potential consequences.

[01:04:16] Lauren De Crescenzo: Potential. If you’re gonna get down and dirty in the mud, there might be some cow in that.

[01:04:20] Chris Case: Yep. Don’t breathe heavy when you go through certain fields. Hold your

[01:04:23] Lauren De Crescenzo: breath when you go through those juicy cows.

[01:04:26] Chris Case: Yeah. But it’s still fun. But it’s still fun. Oh,

[01:04:30] Lauren De Crescenzo: I had a blast.

Yeah.

[01:04:32] Chris Case: I mean, yeah, there’s so many good reasons to do gravel racing. You don’t have to do the big one. In fact, the big one might be too big and too long and too much of a scene for a lot of people, especially the first time around. There’s so many local races now- Right … that are so much fun. And every, I feel like every race has its own character, not just because the gravel means so many different things in so many different parts of the country, but the atmosphere is different and the intent of the race is different.

Some are very competitive. Some are not at all competitive. So you can find your thing out there. I mean, Ben, you can speak to this better than anyone. You’ve been to more races than all of us, I would say, at this point.

[01:05:18] Ben Delaney: There are oodles and oodles, for sure. And I would recommend folks, like, go to a big one and go to a small one.

Again, going to a big one, you don’t even have to sign up for the thing. There’s a whole mess of shakeout rides, which are very fun, very social thing, like the Chamois Butt’r Shakeout at, in, in Cory this weekend, there was probably a thousand people and cops escorting the whole thing, ’cause it was like, it was a full-on bike nerd parade.

So there’s like d- there’s days of that. Critical

[01:05:44] Chris Case: mass ride before the, the big event.

[01:05:46] Ben Delaney: Yeah. And that’s a good way to get, like, caught up in the momentum and meet people- Great … who are doing other things. And, and then doing a small one can be a super low-key, like, very high fun-to-stress ratio. And there are more…

It’s definitely a rider’s market now. There are more events than any other type of cycling.

[01:06:03] Jared Berg: Mm-hmm.

[01:06:04] Ben Delaney: So if you go to like gravelcalendar.com, and there’s just oodles and oodles of races, probably one close to where you are, wherever you happen to be living, so yeah, lots of choices, and I’m definitely a evangelist about Getting out and doing one.

They’re fun. It’s hard to explain why from the outset, but people come back talking about losing

[01:06:22] Lauren De Crescenzo: weight from eating cow poop. But I would do it, I would do it all over again. Go

[01:06:24] Ben Delaney: out and do one, and you too will be one of these people that other people are looking at like, “Why are they so excited about this?”

Mm-hmm. It’s a good time.

[01:06:30] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yes. The community, the gravel community is, like, unlike anything else. Been in the road scene, just all the different scenes. The gravel community is, like, super strong and super… You’ll have a good time. Yeah.

[01:06:42] Ben Delaney: Mm-hmm.

[01:06:42] Lauren De Crescenzo: Make a lot of friends.

[01:06:43] Chris Case: Yeah.

[01:06:44] Lauren De Crescenzo: Mm-hmm. Lot of more crazy people like you out there, trust me.

[01:06:47] Ben Delaney: It’s true.

[01:06:48] Lauren De Crescenzo: Mm-hmm.

[01:06:49] Chris Case: Well, Lauren, you haven’t been on the show before, but we always end with a take home message. We basically give you a minute to-

[01:06:57] Lauren De Crescenzo: Ugh …

[01:06:57] Chris Case: give everybody the most important message from the episode. You don’t have to go first. You’re our honored guest today. You can go last. If you- Okay, give me

[01:07:05] Lauren De Crescenzo: an example

[01:07:06] Chris Case: first.

Trevor, why don’t you give us your take home as an example for Lauren?

[01:07:11] Trevor Connor: I just- Oh, boy …

[01:07:11] Lauren De Crescenzo: get to work with.

[01:07:12] Trevor Connor: I don’t… I’m, I was trying to think of my take home, simply because I think I’m the only person here who’s never officially done a gravel race.

[01:07:20] Chris Case: Mm-hmm.

[01:07:20] Ben Delaney: What did you hear

[01:07:21] Chris Case: Lauren

[01:07:21] Lauren De Crescenzo: saying? Yeah, from your

[01:07:22] Trevor Connor: observations.

Well… No, so I am gonna go with this a little bit, because I’ve never officially done a gravel race, but I’ve done a ton of gravel races. Because as you guys know, for years there were these events that weren’t official. You all just showed up. Mm-hmm.

[01:07:38] Chris Case: Mm-hmm.

[01:07:38] Trevor Connor: And they were these eight-hour, nine-hour epic things, mostly on dirt, that we did on our road bikes.

Mm-hmm, yeah. And they were a ton of fun. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I remember Chris dragging me out to one, and he and I were riding together, and I got to the top of this hill, and you were nowhere to be seen. And I spent 30 minutes looking for you. You had actually just gone down to the car and not told me.

[01:08:00] Lauren De Crescenzo: Good one.

[01:08:01] Trevor Connor: Which, appreciate it, thank you. Never said that.

[01:08:04] Chris Case: Any time.

[01:08:05] Trevor Connor: But to me, those were just a ton of fun. They were epic. They were crazy. You had all sorts of issues, as you said, and it was just a fun day on the bike. And this is back when the term gravel race didn’t exist. They’ve become formalized. They’ve become the gravel race.

But what I’ve kinda liked hearing is, while they’re more formal, while there’s now more technique and gear and everything for it, it doesn’t sound like it’s lost that epic kind of fun element. Which is kinda my take home, is great to hear that, and I hope it never does lose that.

[01:08:40] Jared Berg: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:40] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yeah.

[01:08:41] Trevor Connor: Says, um… Then I look at your face- And you’re…

Yes, yes … and you’re kind of grinning, and I’m going- I agree … no.

[01:08:45] Lauren De Crescenzo: Yes.

[01:08:46] Trevor Connor: Cow poop is not fun.

[01:08:47] Lauren De Crescenzo: Cow poop, not today, but I’ll laugh about it in a few days. Yeah. Hopefully.

[01:08:52] Trevor Connor: All right. Ben, you wanna go next?

[01:08:54] Ben Delaney: Yes, practice. Just get out there, have fun, get in a routine. Don’t be afraid to lean on others. Uh, Lauren mentioned the benefits of Working with a coach, it can be a formal paid relationship like that, or you can be like me and do your yoga with Adrian on YouTube for free in the morning.

But just like getting in some kind of routine definitely helps, and then going out for a regular group ride, like, so that’s a way to get regular practice in, and just kinda get swept up in having fun, and you’ll improve without it feeling like it’s a work thing. That may be contrary to a coaching podcast of specificity, but having a routine where fun is part of it helps make the specific workouts more enjoyable to do and easier to do when it’s, like, built into your routine.

[01:09:34] Chris Case: Mm-hmm. For me, it’s don’t get intimidated by the distances that you hear. Gravel races tend to be longer and things like that, but the training principles by and large are the same. You can prepare yourself by riding primarily on the road for a gravel race, but it helps to get out on the dirt, for sure. So I wouldn’t say there’s a whole lot different there that you have to do.

Certainly getting off the bike and doing s- more strength work because your body gets beat up a little bit more on dirt is helpful. But it’s– Still, it’s don’t be intimidated, and in the end, choose your own adventure. If you wanna go super long and experience what it’s like to ride across Kansas for half a day or more-

go do it. It’s incredible. You might never wanna do it again, but you’ll have a story to tell. But if you only wanna- That’s true … if you only wanna do a 50-miler, which is a far more reasonable distance for an amateur rider to do, that’s great, too, and there’s tons of races that fit that bill. So do a little bit of research, and you’ll find something that fits, that satisfies that craving you have if you wanna get into gravel.

If you wanna have the best event ever, start incorporating all these little things in. Work on your skills a little bit. Definitely train your gut. Wear the hydration vest more often than on race day, so you know- Mm-hmm … what that feels like. All the little stuff. Work on your resilience and your tenacity and all of that, and have fun.

Lauren.

[01:11:02] Lauren De Crescenzo: Right. Thank you for all the examples, guys. I agree with everything that everyone just said, obviously. I mean, I say although this is, like, my job, I’m a professional at gravel racing, I’m learning every single ride. I’m always improving at, like, whether it’s the… yeah, the little things. There’s always, like, little things you can improve upon.

You’re always chasing, like, that extra .1, 1%, never-ending. You can- it can be all-consuming. Mm-hmm. It is all-consuming. So just, I think it’s important to be able to just keep that in mind. You can always get better. There’ll always be someone better than you, no matter what it is in life, I think. And you

[01:11:40] Chris Case: can learn from them.

[01:11:41] Lauren De Crescenzo: You can learn from them. You can lean on them. You can… yeah, they can show you how to be better, and I… oh, something I always have to remind myself is, so if you’re disappointed in a race result, just think there’s always a bike race next weekend.

[01:11:56] Chris Case: That’s right. It’s a pretty full calendar at this

[01:11:59] Lauren De Crescenzo: point. Yeah, so never get too attached to a specific result because usually the results expire by the next weekend.

Mm-hmm. And you’re doing it all over again. So I say don’t focus too hard on the results. Just, there’s always another bike race, and just keep trying. But there’ll always be someone better than you, so yeah, just don’t get too, too wrapped up in that-

[01:12:19] Trevor Connor: Mm-hmm …

[01:12:20] Lauren De Crescenzo: piece.

[01:12:21] Trevor Connor: Very

[01:12:21] Ben Delaney: good.

[01:12:22] Trevor Connor: Fantastic. Well, thank you. My

[01:12:23] Ben Delaney: pleasure.

Thanks for having me y’all.

[01:12:25] Trevor Connor: Particularly considering how you’re feeling, for coming in- … and doing this with us.

[01:12:28] Lauren De Crescenzo: I couldn’t… I’m fine. I’m totally fine, guys. It’s not contagious. Cow is not contagious.

[01:12:34] Chris Case: It better not be. Better not be. That was another episode of Fast Talk. Subscribe to Fast Talk wherever you prefer to find your favorite podcast.

Don’t forget, we’re now on YouTube. Give us a like and subscribe there, and help us grow our reach. As always, remember that thoughts and opinions expressed on Fast Talk are those of the individual. Join us on social media @FastTalkLabs. For access to our endurance sports content and continuing education for coaches, head to fasttalklabs.com.

For Lauren De Crescenzo, Ben Delaney, and Trevor Connor, I’m Chris Case. Thanks for listening.