In this episode, we talk with Lisa Charlebois, a randonneur cyclist who lives in San Francisco. After two years of training diligently and riding the four qualifying events, Lisa successfully completed Paris Brest Paris, a 1200km (750-mile) brevet in 78 hours, 27 minutes, and 8 seconds, well within the 90-hour limit.
Full of good insight and positive energy, Lisa shares how she planned, trained, and prepared for her race. She details the custom bicycle she built, and how she fueled, packed, and mentally approached the event. Lisa also recounts the colorful experiences she had throughout the race, shares the beauty of the lovely countryside, and tells us how to make the most of the ride. As you begin planning for the 2024 cycling season, tune in to listen to her great advice on whether randonneuring is for you and on how to successfully complete any randonnée or endurance cycling event.
Take a look at Lisa’s packing list for the PBP here!
Dede Barry 00:05
Hi, and welcome to Fast Talk Femmes with the Dede Barry and Julie Young. In this episode, we are going to discuss how to plan, prepare, and execute big challenges. Our guests on this episode is Lisa Charlebois, a San Francisco based advertising professional, who also loves bikes and successfully completed Paris Brest Paris brevet, otherwise known as PBP in August of this year.
Dede Barry 00:29
For our listeners who are not familiar with PBP, it’s a 1200-kilometer or 750-mile cycling event that was founded in 1891. It was founded as a bicycle race, but the last time that the event was organized as a race was 1951. In 1952, the organizers shifted the event into a purvey or randonee format that is held every four years. As in all brevet events, riders need to be self-sufficient. They’re able to buy supplies anywhere along the course, but support by motorized vehicles is prohibited. Except at official checkpoints. There’s a 90-hour limit and the clock runs continuously.
Dede Barry 01:08
Many riders sleep as little as possible, sometimes catching a few minutes beside the road before continuing. Some choose to ride as fast as possible, while others ride to enjoy the journey alone or with friends, absorbing the countryside and culture. In order to qualify, participants must first complete a series of surveys within the same calendar year as PBP. A brevet series consists of 200 kilometers, 300 kilometers, 400 kilometers, and 600 kilometers were once PBP was contested by professional cyclists as a demonstration of the bicycles potential.
Dede Barry 01:43
Today, the focus is on the ordinary rider that wants to challenge themselves, yet a competitive element remains. Despite insistence that it isn’t a race PBP offers trophies and prestige to the first finishers, as well as a best bike and other categories. I had the pleasure of getting to know Lisa Charlebois last winter as she reached out to our team at Mariposa bicycles in Toronto to build her accustomed bicycle for the event. I really enjoy getting to know Lisa through this process, and following her progress over the past year, it’s evident that she really loves riding her bike and tackling big challenges.
Dede Barry 02:20
In this episode, we’ll discuss how Lisa got started in brevets, randoneer cycling events, how she qualified prepared for and packed for the PBP, the specifications of her custom bike and how she fueled on route and how she successfully completed the event and 78 hours, 27 minutes, and eight seconds well within the 90 hour limit. Lisa, welcome to Fast Talk Femmes.
Rob Pickels 02:46
In the future of coaching, which is the last module release of the craft of coaching with Joe Friel, we envision what the future of coaching looks like in the years to come. While artificial intelligence will play a critical role, AI will never completely replace coaching. However, leveraging its attributes to find the right balance of personal connection with automated tasks will be vital to remaining relevant with future generations. Check out the craft of coaching module 14 at fast talk labs.com.
Dede Barry 03:18
Lisa, thank you for joining us today. It’s been a real pleasure following your progression as you’ve prepped for and written the PvP this year.
Lisa Charlebois 03:27
Oh my gosh, I am so excited and stoked to be here. So thank you.
Dede Barry 03:32
Let’s kick off with a little bit about your background. Can you tell our audience about your background? How you got into cycling and randonneur Bravais type events?
Lisa Charlebois 03:42
Yeah, for sure. So I’m Canadian, and I met my husband when I was in my early 20s. And he was a cyclist. And so it was kind of I think a lot of women can probably resonate with the story of like you meet a boy, he likes to bike. So I guess I’m gonna start biking now. So that’s kind of how it started. And there was such a great cycling community in Toronto. So the BC cheta I got this amazing bike there. Like it just kind of grew from there. And then as my professional career took me to the states, sadly, I didn’t bike much in New York City that was like four years without the bike and then Los Angeles. Again, it doesn’t seem like it on paper, it would be a good cycling city, but it is incredible. And so that’s, again, where I just really got deep into biking and the culture, the local scene, and then I moved up to San Francisco. And that’s where the Rando curious started. And so having cycled for a while and always recreationally and you do a big fondo once a year or something like that. But with my husband turning 50 on August 19 and Perry breast starting August 21 It was like this is probably the most like the raddest 50th birthday we could ever have So that was it. And so two years before that is when we started prepping and like looking up what randonneuring is like, you even get into PvP and all of this. So it was a pretty steep learning curve, but, but it’s been a lot of fun. And now I’m like fully indoctrinated into what I like to call the neon army. So randonneurs are all about high vis and so I kind of like to call them the the neon army.
Julie Young 05:27
Lisa, it’s great to meet you. And thanks for taking time to join us today.
Lisa Charlebois 05:32
Yeah. Oh my god. Thank
Julie Young 05:33
you. Yeah, so it sounds like the PBP was put on your bucket list with your husband’s birthday. Does that sound about right?
Lisa Charlebois 05:41
Oh, totally. I’ve heard of it. Like it was one of those like urban legends, but you never actually thought of it like nobody wakes up and is like, Yeah, I think I’m gonna go on a 12 and a kilometer bike ride. Like, that’s not at least I don’t. So having sort of like a monumental birthday sort of crystallized, it is something that we’re actually going to work towards now.
Julie Young 05:59
So what draws you to this type of an event, you know, the longer the event, it seems like, the more highs and lows we go through physically and mentally. But what draws you to these types of events?
Lisa Charlebois 06:10
I think the coolest part about doing long events is the fact that you are at par with everyone else, man or women, it doesn’t matter that physical exertion of it is really the same because you’re going to be in a zone one for like 19 hours. So you don’t get blown off the back of a peloton, you’re still in the group. And I think, at least for me, as a as a female cyclist, it’s really crappy when you call it a group ride, and you’re instantly dropped, and you kind of feel like a bit of a goof. And whereas randonneuring I mean, you can hang with those groups for the whole time. So it feels like you’re part of the community, you know, part of the team? Yeah,
Julie Young 06:50
I think it’s interesting, because I think these ultra events have grown so much in popularity, whether it’s the running or riding. And I feel like we learned so much about ourselves in these events. And I feel like for some, some of us, like life has become super easy, convenient, kind of soft. And it’s like we’re drawn to these self inflicted adversity that we experienced are these rides, and kind of how we respond to that adversity and seeing how we kind of like mentally can kind of pull ourselves through those lows. But do you feel like you’re drawn more to the physical challenge, or the mental challenge or both of these events?
Lisa Charlebois 07:28
I think you nailed it. I mean, our lives are pretty chill, like, you know, sure you have daily stress and things like that. But like, you don’t have to go and hunt for your food. I mean, we’re not doing anything that’s so difficult in our days. And I think doing challenges like random events of like 234 600 Kilometer rides, like that’s a hard thing. And so you have to plan for it. You have to train for it. You have to get your head, right. And then you’re gonna go through some pretty dark moments during the ride. At some point, every ride, it’s there’s a dark moment. So how are you going to rally and get through it? Like, I think it’s that sort of it sounds masochistic. But it’s that challenge that I think I really get stoked about because, again, nothing in my life is that difficult. So yeah, I’d say that’s a big part of it. I think the community is also really cool. It’s a little different vibe than your local club ride. Like it’s a slower pace, you take in the experience more like you’re, you’re not just crashing, like, Let’s go pin it and you know, get this thing over and get coffee, you know, you’re gonna stop and you’re gonna have lunch and you’re gonna have sleep for four hours. Sometimes you might nap in a ditch. I mean, there’s a lot of crazy stuff that happens. But that’s kind of this unique style of writing. And that’s what makes it so interesting.
Dede Barry 08:48
Lisa, my father, who was a keen randonneur, an organized labor vase in Canada, he always felt like it was about the journey more than a race. And he had raced for a long time. But to him randonneuring was more about enjoying the challenge and the experience of a long ride with a group, getting through it as a group and enjoying it. How do you approach events?
Lisa Charlebois 09:08
Yeah, some people try to race it like to be fair, some people are like full gas, no brakes, just going for it and good for them. I mean, that’s fantastic. In fact, on PvP, we saw the dude who set the new record, like we saw him on the return, and this guy was like, in the aero bars, just absolutely crushing it. And that’s really cool. Except there’s all this other stuff that you miss, right? Like the people on the side of the road, or if you’re doing your local randonneur event, there’s gonna be something quirky and different and weird, and you kind of want to be able to take that in. So I think racing it and trying to get a time. It’s hard because I think as a competitive person, you want to sort of achieve the goal. But you know, the time limits are pretty comfortable for the most part. So you should take the full VAT like they call it full value randonneur barring some times where you’re just like, take the full 90 hours or 84, you know, 40, whatever you’re working at. So I think your your father in law’s is pretty spot on. If you’re not sort of stopping to smell the roses a little bit like, you might not be doing it 100% correctly. Yeah. In my humble opinion.
Dede Barry 10:17
Yeah. What events did you do to qualify for a PvP?
Lisa Charlebois 10:21
So it’s pretty strict, but it’s pretty well organized on how you get into PvP. So the year before, so we’re gonna go back into 20. What is it 21. They take your longest purvey. So it could be 1000 kilometers, it could be 600 400, etc. And that will then be your placement for when you get to register. So 2022. It’s your longest purvey 2023, you have to do a randonneur series. And that’s a 200 300 406 100 Kilometer Bravais. That’s sanctioned by the odd ducks, Parisian yada, yada, yada. So you can’t just go out and like ride your own ride, you have to do the ones by your local clubs. And once those are complete and sanctioned and sent to Paris and validated, then you get to enter. And so because I did the 600, the year before I completed my series by May, then I was off to Paris in August. And I was in the ad for our group, the first corral of the ad for our group. So So team W so shout out to my team W people that did it with me. So you
Dede Barry 11:30
ended up finishing well ahead of schedule, then if you’re in the 84 group and finished at 78 hours. That’s impressive.
Lisa Charlebois 11:37
Oh, thank you. I mean, I was pretty stoked on it. I’ll be honest, I was also like, maybe kind of pushing a little like, this sounds mental. But the first, I think I was nervous for the first 125 miles, which again, the numbers are always gonna sound wacky. But I was so like, just anxious about everything. And then like, I tighten my shoes too tight, and I was like, oh my god, I’m gonna DNF because my shoes aren’t working. And like I was just like, everything was all like screwed up in my head. So then you kind of chilled out, you kind of breathe into it. And then you know, I kind of found my groove. But that first day, I think we did a full 12 hours with about 40 minutes of stopping. So we were we were kind of pinning it a little bit. And then once we sort of found our groove, then we sort of chilled out and we’re like, okay, we can not be such lunatics about this.
Dede Barry 12:26
So my father in law, he founded the Toronto randonneurs in 1982, with a good friend of his and fellow Brit. He’s from the UK, another friend Mike Brown. And initially when they founded the club had a lot of European immigrants. And there were very few women in it. But the organization really evolved over the years. And today, it’s a much more diverse demographic, perhaps reflecting all the progressive changes and larger, at least City Cycling communities in North America. But I’d be curious to know what’s the randonneur community like in San Francisco and in California more generally, because I know you’ve spent a lot of time in LA as well.
Lisa Charlebois 13:02
Yeah, I mean, I’ll use this opportunity to shout out Rob Hawkes who’s our RBA. So he’s the fella that has sort of really taken the San Francisco randonneurs. and turned it into this just incredible club. Under his sort of purview and wisdom. He sent over 100 people to PvP this year, which is a massive amount, the club has about 400 people in it. And as far as diversity, I mean, yes, there still aren’t like 5050 men and women on these things. But there’s a handful of women, which in those instances feels pretty good. So I think they’ve done a good job. I think a lot of times people just don’t even know this is a thing, right? Like, you hear about gravel races, and you hear about sort of crits. But I don’t think people hear about these long endurance events as much. And so I think if more women actually knew this was a thing, it would be interesting, because, again, you can compete in air quotes, but you can sort of hang with everybody. It’s not as exclusive as maybe some of these other events
Julie Young 14:05
leading up to this, like, what what was your training like? And did you work with a coach? Or did you have specific preparation and training or did you just ride as much as possible?
Lisa Charlebois 14:15
Yeah, no, I definitely had a coach. So I will also shout out fast cat athletes, fast cat coaching, it was my coach ally, she was an ex Pro. And it’s funny because I’m like, Hey, Ally, I want to do this insane thing. And she’s like, I don’t know how to coach you to this. You know, the mind share of the fast cat coaching team came together and they actually created a plan that was so epic, like I had legs the entire time, which I thought at some point, I’d fall apart and just be you know, a puddle of goo but it was like the last 40k and I have like a bunch of dudes behind me and I’m pulling and I’m like, Let’s go it’s so it was just it felt so good. So the train And leading up to that. I mean, I sort of I’ve been working with this coach for about two or three years. So we’ve been sort of working up and building up endurance. But the stuff they did that was really interesting is they did some simulation rides. So it gets pretty hot in France. And so here in San Francisco, we went up north, kind of Santa Rosa, that area. And like I did this weekend, where the first day we did 19 hours on the bike, sleep four hours, the second day was 12 hours on the bike, sleep four hours, and then 10 hours on the bike, sleep, you know, normal. So it was all about getting used to sleep deprivation and still working. And that worked great, except it was like 110, which, as a Canadian, I’m pretty good at Fahrenheit until about 80. And then I just assume everything’s like 30. So Celsius, like I got it don’t compute anymore. Or writing it I’ve fallen apart of like, oh, jeez, I’m not even sweating anymore. I’m just like, so hot. Anyway, turns out, that’s 43. So that’s good to know. So that was incredibly hot. But I think that he training helped a lot in France, because it did get up to 104, which I still don’t know what that is, but it was hot. And I was like covered in salt. But so a little bit of heat training leading up to it was really helpful. At the simulation weekends that I did, I did a couple of them, were just getting used to big mileage without sleeping, also super helpful. And then just sort of ramping up my fitness and getting to a CTL that was, you know, for me, like 100, which I’ve never been at before, but just having all that volume in the legs and being able and the butt to I mean, your hands your butt, it’s the stuff that you don’t think is gonna fall apart is what falls apart. Like, my legs were fine. Like I could walk around Paris the next day, like it wasn’t a problem. But your hands are destroyed. Right? Your your undercarriage your butt, like all of that is just a hot mess. So you kind of in a weird way need to train your body, your soft tissue to handle the pain of all this other stuff. Yeah, I think
Julie Young 17:06
it’s interesting. When you do these long events, you realize like it’s not necessarily your legs that are the limiting factor. It’s all those like your to your point, all those small body parts or the tissues or whatever the case may be. It’s an eye opener.
Lisa Charlebois 17:21
It’s not cute, and you might want to edit this out. But I started calling it like hamburger. I was like, Oh girl, and all of us. At some point, the savagery of the entire event took over. And we’re just like shamefully shoving Shammi cream down our bibs. And like in the middle of like a bunch of people like nobody cared anymore. We found this stuff called Voltaren, which I think is in Canada. But in France, it’s like liquid Advil, essentially, very off label use, but I’m like, Screw it. I’m putting boltaron down there. Like, whatever, I can just get over this thing. So yeah, you get very resourceful. Also, at what point
Julie Young 18:02
did you decide to do PvP? And like, how far out did you start? Like training and specifically preparing for it?
Lisa Charlebois 18:10
Yeah, I’d say a good two years for sure. So okay, leading up to that 600, which are 600, that the San Francisco randonneurs runs in May. So January, like coming off a weight cycle. So every year I’ll do like the offseason weights, and then I’ll sort of ramp back up into volume get into usually that 600 is like kind of the big event. That was the year before and then the year of it was really just like more volume than I think I’ve ever had in my life. So
Julie Young 18:38
yeah, and what kind of structured workouts were you doing? I mean, because it’s, I’m sure it’s more than just doing miles like you want to do those miles efficiently. Right. So what kind of structured work totally, I
Lisa Charlebois 18:49
mean, to buy 20 sweet spots, like TSS rides of just hitting, you know, like 300 tss, or something crazy, like just sort of moving between you don’t do vo two Max. I mean, I wasn’t going in that effort. But there would be sort of like more of the sweetspot efforts, trying to really just get as much endurance in the legs as possible. And then even during the week, a little bit of like, the criss cross intervals, things like that, so that I could sort of just like, like, you guys, were the coaches, so you can tell me what that’s supposed to do. But just, I just would execute whatever she put on the trading peaks. I was like, Alright, going to work. And that was it. So yeah, she kept the variety in there for sure. Because you’re right, you can’t just sit on your bike endlessly. I mean, you do have I have a job. I have a life so
Julie Young 19:38
right. It’s try to be leveraging the time you have during the week while you’re working. I’m sure probably some shorter type efforts.
Lisa Charlebois 19:46
Yeah, exactly. And, and even using the group rides that I would do just as like opportunities to sort of like getting a bit of the surge, like pushing the pace a little bit in that instance. So yeah, it was it was helpful. I’m gonna Maybe have the personality that I just love being told what to do and just execute.
Julie Young 20:05
And I’m sure I would imagine like those on those training rides like you’re also training your nutrition as well.
Lisa Charlebois 20:11
Oh my gosh. So I could talk for days about my like, love of this stuff we created called hummingbird mix is nothing fancy, it’s literally sugar, sodium citrate, and like a flavoring powder like Gatorade, or I don’t know, country, time, lemonade, or whatever you got. And this stuff is magic. I mean, it’s so consistent, I can drink it all day long. There’s no issues with it, and on PBP. So I have these like one liter bottles, which look insane. But it’s just because you can carry more water that way. And so I would put about 150 ish grams in there. So I would have 75 grams of carbs per hour. And then on top of that, I would you know, whatever, eat a bar or a gel or something. Because in these long endurance events, it’s really tough, at least for me to like, eat food the whole time, like, knowing I have my liquid calories was really comforting. Plus, it was easy to make. I mean, the day before we hit up like a whatever car for whatever the grocery store was, I think we bought like eight kilos of sugar and like taking our eight kilos of sugar at our knapsacks like back to the apartment to make all our mix. But But yeah, that stuff to me works great. I think that’s where people fall apart on these endurance rides. Like, it’s just because they’re not eating enough for the most part.
Julie Young 21:30
Yeah. And these are totally self supported, right? Like you basically just pull into any little mini mart. Yeah, yeah.
Lisa Charlebois 21:37
On PvP, there’s control points. So in order for you to, you know, complete the ride, you have a Bravais card, and every 80 100 ish kilometers, there’s a control. And so you go in there, they stamp your card, they write down the time, you also have a time chip on your bike, but they’re kind of old school. And I think this is kind of like the allure of PBP you know, a lot of surveys you’ll do with your local club, they’ll just use your your computer as your electronic passage. But getting the card like I have my card I like it’s so cool. When guy wrote Bravo, like, one of the volunteers, I don’t know, it’s just, it’s really neat. So there’s food at all the control points, so you don’t have to be like me, and just like drink your food, you can actually go and eat real food there. And we did that a couple of the controls. But for me, I think one aspect of endurance biking is like brain space and eliminating questions. And so for me, like what am I going to eat is a question that I knew I could easily eliminate and open up a little bit more, you know, I don’t know if space for other problems. So yeah, so I just brought all my food with me. And that meant I had way too much food. Like I was like, I like could feed half of the peloton. I was like who’s hungry? Like I got I got more than enough here. But again, I was just so nervous about like, oh my gosh, am I gonna eat like eating a ham and cheese croissant? Like, is that gonna work for me or not? So I kind of took that route, which Yeah, maybe was slightly paranoid. But
Julie Young 23:09
I trained a couple who actually live in California for Bravais days. And they said you learned to eat well at an AMPM
Lisa Charlebois 23:17
Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh, I think on Instagram. There’s a guy called gas station cyclist. And he always like showcases all like horrible gas station food. People eat. I’m all about it. Like I am not above a Twinkie. I mean, at some point. And it’s so gross. But you’re kind of like this human garbage disposal and it doesn’t matter chips, hot dogs, like anything with calories. You’re just like, yeah, no, that sounds fantastic. And I will crush a McDonald’s meal like nobody’s business. And at first I was like, That’s madness. All that fat. Oh my gosh, no, it just like it incinerates in your body. Because you’re just working. You’re not even you’re not working hard, like, you know, at the end of a big interval. But your body is just so in need of calories at that point that you just need to fuel it as best you can.
Julie Young 24:10
When I think to like these events, whether it’s a stage race or those these Ultras, you just experienced that food fatigue. And you just like you said, really what matters is just getting that food in and whatever form whatever tastes good, whatever. Sounds good. Just eat it. Yeah,
Lisa Charlebois 24:25
I will say hats off to the French randonneur. I saw at McDonald’s that ordered a salad and then had a cigarette. I don’t know what his strategy was. Pretty, pretty Pro.
Julie Young 24:37
God. It’s like the vegans eating apple pies at McDonald’s. Oh my gosh. Hey, Lisa, tell us about your custom bike and how did you choose the specifications?
Lisa Charlebois 24:50
Ah, well, I am a big fan of my bike, which is a Mariposa and I was thrilled to work with Diddy and Michael berry on making this bike, I think the journey to just even getting the bike was super exciting. I went to Toronto, I got fit. We talked about PDP, this literally was a bike made to do PvP. And now of course, all my other endurance events. So it’s a steel bike with, I’m running Princeton carbon works wheels, which are tubeless setup, by the way, which I know maybe some people would like to Bliss. But personally, I feel like randonneuring and tubeless is a great move, because chances are the punctures you’re gonna get can probably get sealed up. And it’s just, again, anything to stop the like annoying stuff that’s going to take your time away. I bleed to that. So steel bike, Princeton, carbon works wheels, I have a dynamo hub in the front wheel. So that’s a son dynamo, which I met the founder of Sun Dynamo at PvP, which is pretty cool. So people were really stoked on this bike, like you should have seen it, people would like, come by and take pictures of the bike, and they’d like move my husband’s bike out of the way, and then take pictures of my bike, which is really cool. It’s a envy sort of cockpit and V handlebars, we’re looking at it envy seatpost, I use a thorn saddle, which for me, works great. I’m a huge fan of that saddle. And then it’s a Dura Ace, di to drive train. I don’t know Didi tell me all the things I’m forgetting.
Dede Barry 26:25
So first of all, it was super fun working with you on this, we’ve had a number of customers do Paris press Paris over the years. So it wasn’t our first time building a custom bike for the event. But I think a couple of the key things were building the bike as lightweight as possible without kind of sacrificing comfort. So we built it with Casaya tubing, which is a super lightweight steel tubing made in Japan. And then we put a carbon fork on it, a lot of the difference in weight between a carbon bike and a steel bike is actually in the fork crown and the steer tube. So when you put a carbon fork on a steel bike, you’re sort of getting the best of both worlds, you’re getting a lightweight bike that actually absorbs a lot of the vibration of the road. So it’s really comfortable to ride over a long period of time. And then for PvP, in particular, because you ride through the night, and potentially and rain, having hub generated lighting system is key. And then a big thing was, you know, we set the bike up with fenders, but with the option to take them off easily so that if the weather was good enough to where you didn’t think you were going to need the fenders, you didn’t have to ride with them, it wasn’t going to slow you down. Because you know, obviously there’s additional wind drag with fenders. So you don’t really want to use them if you don’t have to. So those were a couple other key features of the bike. And then and then the paint job was all about Lisa and what she what she wanted, which might be why everybody was taking pictures of your bike. Oh, well, yeah. But coming back to the Princeton wheels. You know, we suggested the president wheels just because the handles so well in the crosswind, that region of France has a lot of cross winds, but they’re also incredibly aerodynamic fast wheels. And so the wheels obviously really affect both the handling of the bike and the speed you can you could ride out. So those are just a few additional features that we thought were important.
Lisa Charlebois 28:16
Oh my gosh, it was so cool. At one point I’m like, so there was a bag drop that I used. So they did a bag drop in Ludi AK, which is the first kind of town that you stop at 270 miles out, and I’m bringing my bag to the bag drop and the guys like, oh, oh, you got to Mariposa. Oh, you know what you’re doing? And I was like cheese? I hope so. I don’t know. It was very well respected in the world of Rando. And that’s why specifically, again, as a Canadian, it felt like a little piece of home was with me too. So I was really keen on getting this bike built for PDP, because I’ve haven’t been doing this to the same extent that Diddy and Michael have. So it was nice to have professionals telling me how I can have a great ride. So and it was great. And it came through clutch.
Julie Young 29:03
It’s so great to have experts like Diddy and Michael just filtering all the information because there’s so many options out there now. Yeah.
Lisa Charlebois 29:11
And my husband, he, you know, used a sort of a gravel bike as his bike, but it didn’t have a dynamo in it. And I think by the end, he’s like, Yeah, this is kind of irritating. You know, again, that brainspace idea. He’s like, Oh, I gotta charge my lights and change the batteries. It just, it’s like another level of annoyance that you just can eliminate. Yeah,
Brittney Coffey 29:35
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Julie Young 30:08
Once you had your bike, did you get it fitted?
Lisa Charlebois 30:10
Oh yeah, no, I did 3d bike fit here in San Francisco. So, again, they’ve done bike fits for me in the past. And it was funny because I went there. And he was sort of like, yeah, there’s not much to do here. It’s perfect. And so I was like, oh, okay, do you like move the handlebars a bit. And that was it. He’s like, whoever built this, they did a great job. So again, another shout out to variables. It was awesome. So yeah, it was really more just like, you know, making sure my saddle was in the right spot and adjusting my handlebars a little bit because again, like your hands, I can’t, I can’t sort of like, downplay how much your hands kind of end up hurting on the end of this thing. And it doesn’t matter. double triple up the bar tape. I mean, it’s just one of those things you have to embrace. It’s gonna suck.
Julie Young 30:56
You alluded to this, but I have some athletes I train for gravel events, and like ultra gravel events and multi day and they just really struggle with finding that good combination of saddle and short Shami, like combination. And I was wondering, again, I know you alluded to this about kind of just dealing with that in the event, but like during training, did you find like, what was your kind of magic there to find that combination? Oh, yeah,
Lisa Charlebois 31:25
I think the saddle slash Shambhala marriage is one that takes a lot of trial and error, at least it did for me. So I went through all sorts of different bibs and whatnot and I kind of came down to the pond Rommel escapism line. I liked the fact that it had little Cargo Pant like cargo pockets on the side. The Shammi was actually really thin, which felt really good. And then the Asos I don’t know ASOS has all those weird numbers. Anyways, the Asos women’s line of bib shorts and those were great. So I did change my shorts every day. I would say like don’t compromise if you’re doing a random event please bring another set of like kit. It will help you immensely. But yeah, so that that worked well for me. And then it’s just the Asos Shammi cream. I use that I also found this stuff that the I guess it was the British Cycling Team uses called Double Bass gel and it’s actually like an Imodium cream, but they use it sort of like a shammy cream. So I got to this like special sauce where I was like okay, I’ll put on my double bass gel is like the prep, and then I’ll put on my Shammi cream. And that’s sort of how like we optimized as best we could on the the undercarriage one could say.
Julie Young 32:43
It seems like what the shorts like the shammies that are smooth don’t have any sort of seams. I think the seams can be a real problem.
Lisa Charlebois 32:51
Oh gosh. Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, that’s why those ASOS ones and the Ponor male ones seem to work really well. Also, I’m not a big fan of the like diaper Shami like the ones that are really thick. Like, that doesn’t feel great. But again, it’s such a personal thing. Like people will ask and be like, Well, what do you use? And what do you like? And so I think sadly for me, I just had to like go out and spend a lot of money on a lot of different bibs and see what worked
Julie Young 33:16
trial and error. And what was the saddle you ended up using?
Lisa Charlebois 33:20
Yeah, it’s a thorn je s something rather saddle and I think it’s a smaller company. I think it’s based in California. But it’s just a bit of a wider it’s almost like a specialized power saddle, kind of the same shape a little wider on my sit bones for me, and has that cut out in the middle and a little bit of cushion like just a scooch. So it actually feels really comfy.
Julie Young 33:43
How did you pack for this event? I mean, I would imagine it’s obviously impossible to predict weather. But how did you pack I know you said you brought all your food you brought a couple items of clothing or changes I mean, like yes sleeping stuff like What all did you bring a walk
Lisa Charlebois 34:01
through it in somewhat, not painful, but in detail. So what I ended up having was I had I had a little mini frame bag, it’s kind of funny, you can see pictures of my bike on Instagram. It’s like this tiny little triangle in the front because that’s all I could fit with my one liter bottles, but that’s kind of like my my pharmacy. So that’s where I have like Tums and Advil and Benadryl. So Advil, I mean, if you start to get kind of sore, a little Advil takes edge off, and then Tom’s like if your gut starts to get weird, that’s super, super helpful. I had all my lotions in there. So I had my Shammi cream, my gel, double bass gel, all of that sunscreen, I’m ask space blanket, because at some point you’re going to nap in a ditch. So the space blanket was the move. I bring a tiny little bottle of chain oil with me because we don’t wax our chains. It doesn’t last long enough for the rides that we’re doing so chain oil at like kilometer 800. We would sort of remove our chains and then all my cables so my cables for My power bank and that were in this little frame bag. In the front, I had a small saddlebag that was just filled with sugar. So it looks like something out of like a cocaine deal, it was just this like bag. And then I have a top two bag. And that was filled with my power bank. And then like extra, you know, gels or whatever kind of I was munching on at the time. And on the back, I had an app adura Oh, I should say, the custom frame bag. And the top two bag is made by this guy in Oklahoma City called steady Co. And it’s like, he makes like kind of cute looking bags. So I sent him a picture of my bike. And I was like, I don’t know, do something cool. And he sent me back these like beautiful bags, and he’s an independent dude. So check them out. And then the back bag was at the Dura 17 litre epidural seat bag. And it’s always tough. You know, I think women’s bikes are just smaller, it’s really hard to get a lot in a frame bag. So I had to use a seat bag. I’m not a fan of it just because of the weight and the feel of it. But I strapped down as best I could. And in that I had a Rafa down jacket, which I know sounds insane. But it gets really cold at night, or I was told it gets really cold at night. It didn’t on my PBP it was actually very pleasant like 12 degrees. But I had that just in case I had a full thing of wet weather gear, so rain pants over shoes, I didn’t want to take rain gloves. So I took surgical gloves. And I would put those in my normal riding gloves if I needed it. A rain cap and some rain socks is what I had, oh, and some arms as well. So and then on my third bottle cage, that’s where I put my little garage. So my toolkit, and in the toolkit was all the normal tools and stuff you have, except I also took a spare derailleur hanger case because I didn’t want that to like end my ride, some bungee cord like a little mini bungee cord, Dyna plug, Quick Link, again, all those sorts of things that you just normally take with you. So
Julie Young 37:01
I bet you that was a real like, work in progress over your preparation. Just these like simulation rides you did just continuing to type kind of fine tune things.
Lisa Charlebois 37:11
Oh my gosh. And yeah, like figuring out what works. What doesn’t What did I need? What did I forget? Oh, the DI two chord. So I did the simulation ride. This was tragic. So I didn’t bring my di two chord with me. And we’re biking like, I don’t know, seven 800 kilometers in a weekend. And of course my di two does. And I was like, Oh, cool. I should probably charge this. And so that was like, even though it was annoying at the moment, I went to a bike store, we got it all sorted out. But like that was that had to happen for me on PvP to know every night I’m going to charge this thing even though I know it has like 1000 kilometer range. But like, this is the peace of mind I need. So I actually took my di two chord with me just in case. But But yeah, I charged it every night, it was totally fine. I’m a huge fan of electronic shifting, because again, it’s just less work on your hands. And super simple. And I mean, it’s amazing. So I’d be curious
Julie Young 38:06
to know, like, I’m assuming you probably read with your husband.
Lisa Charlebois 38:10
Yeah, I had a rule. I’m like, you can’t ditch me and I can’t ditch you. So stay together everything else that care. But
Julie Young 38:18
you know, yeah. And then I’m assuming did you guys kind of team up with others along the way? Or was it just kind of come and go?
Lisa Charlebois 38:26
Yeah, no, it’s wild. I guess the best was someone described as like, Burning Man on bikes. Like it’s just, there’s 180 Different countries represented all these different people. And so as you’re writing, you meet so many different individuals and you get into these, at one point we had like a 30 person like peloton like it was almost too big. Like, yeah, it was wild. And so you’d get a poll. And I mean, sometimes I’ll be honest, randonneurs aren’t the greatest group riders, because a lot of times they just ride on their own for like 600 kilometers. So you kind of had to encourage some of the people to be like, no, no, it’s your turn for a pole. Like I’m not doing this all day. You need to now do this. But yeah, we got this like, amazing group that just sort of worked together for I don’t know how many miles at that point. And it’s nice to like when you’re writing at night, it’s nice to be in a group to talk with someone. I think that’s something else that if you’re not used to writing at night, it can feel kind of a little bit nerve wracking. But to shake that up. I mean, talk to the person next to you just sort of like, I don’t know, I played some music. I have like this little clip on speaker on my jersey that I would play and that would be a nice way to like, break up the monotony of the evening. So
Julie Young 39:38
yeah, and speaking of the evening, how was it to ride at night like again to take some time to dial in the right lighting equipment for yourself?
Lisa Charlebois 39:46
I mean, Diddy had it on lock. It was great Dynamo worked like a charm lights were awesome. So there’s no problem there. I have that either Lux light and it’s super bright. It’s fantastic. And then as far as like Got the vibe. I mean, I think it was really just well, I should say, the roads in France or at least in that part of France were so smooth. Usually California, when you’re riding at night, you’re like, kind of a little reticent, like you’re always slower because you don’t really know the road surface in front of you. And you’re just kind of being a little more cautious. There. I mean, it was like you were riding during the day, like you had so much confidence in the road ahead of you that you really didn’t kind of pull back. So that was incredible. The stars the landscape, at one point, we had this huge group we were going into, when the last or third day, it gets real fuzzy by the end, it’s just day, like the endless day. And so there was like, again, a huge group of us. And there was this German dude next to me and I started playing Daft Punk, because I mean, we’re in France, like, it’s a bit of a vibe. It felt like we were in a video game, like everyone’s lights playing on the landscape. And the second that song changed from one to the next. And there’s like a bit of a break in the music. The dude next to me, it’s like, where’s that goes? And I’m like, okay, okay, it’s gonna be alright, you know? So. So yeah, the night writing there was super fun. And, yeah, it’s probably like the greatest night writing I’ve ever done.
Julie Young 41:13
How was the weather for you? Like, were you dealing with any rain? When
Lisa Charlebois 41:17
No, I mean, it got pretty hot day one. Like I said, it went up to like 104. And it would get hot, like three o’clock to five, like it was kind of later. So that was kind of gross. Nighttime, it would go down to like, I don’t know, 10 degrees Celsius, or something like that. It wasn’t that bad. I mean, I’m used to San Francisco weather, which is kind of like perpetually cold. So it felt great. Some of the folks from Southeast Asia were definitely not feeling it. They were like freaking out. So the Northern Europeans couldn’t hang in the heat. And then the South Asian folks couldn’t hang in the cold. So you kind of saw all the different riders like trying to figure out what they were going to wear. But yeah, no, there was no rain. There was rain for like a little bit on the last day, which I felt like was just bound to happen at some point. But it wasn’t anything you couldn’t manage. So yeah, I didn’t use fenders on the ride, because it was pretty much clear skies. And the wind was pretty mild. Yeah, I mean, there’s some parts where it’s pretty exposed. So you can get some kind of gross headwinds. And, you know, like those dark moments in a ride, where it’s just gets a little bit grindy. But you know, it’s not going to last forever. And so we’d sort of just like Rich and I would work together and sort of like, try to, like, just help each other out through the win ticket and polls and stuff.
Julie Young 42:34
Yeah, that’s massive. How much did you sleep? And where did you sleep? And I’m just kind of wondering, as I’m listening to you, like, if it’s super hot, and you do better in the evening, like, I was wondering, did you play in your sleep during the hotter part of the day and then try to ride through the night? Or how did you do that?
Lisa Charlebois 42:50
Yeah, I mean, I think that’s a strategy that I would think about for the next time. So spoiler alert, I’m totally doing this again. Basic, but yeah, no, I think that’s definitely something to think about. Because you kind of have to figure out how you want to use your time, you know, this time not understanding even I’ve never even done a 12 100k Bravais before. So all of this was new, not only just we’re in another country, it’s like everything’s new. So for us, it was just, we had a hotel in Lou deaq. So like I said, that first day was a big first day to intern 70 miles, we stayed in a hotel that we got, and we slept about four hours. The second day, we go from Lou deaq to breast and then back to Lou deaq. And that we slept three hours. And then the last day, which just turns into endless day, that goes from Wednesday, kind of spilling into Thursday. That’s where we slept about 90 minutes around 1230. I guess that’s technically Thursday morning, on the side of the road somewhere. And that was it. So that’s how much we slept, which, again, is kind of gnarly. But we could have probably afforded more sleep like at 70 Out 78 hours, and I have an 84 time limit. Like now I was a bit nervous thinking like, oh, gosh, we got to make our time. And now I know I probably could have afforded a few more hours asleep.
Dede Barry 44:18
Yeah, that’s serious sleep deprivation now. Yeah. Did it affect your bike handling?
Lisa Charlebois 44:25
No. I mean, we were totally fine. Like, that’s the weird part is like, you get into this mode where your life becomes incredibly simple. You get up, you eat, and you ride your bike. And that’s it. You don’t look at the news. You don’t really text your friends. You just sort of go into this, like, different mode of working and that’s your life now for the next three or four days. That’s what you’re gonna do. And so, you know, we would we would rest I mean, we’d stop and eat. I think that that was really important just to take some time off the bike. Like, I sleep hard like those four hours. We’re done. up like I was deep in sleep, but you know, even sitting and eating my lunch, you’re not on the bike. And that felt good, too. So you might not be like sleeping, but you’re resting.
Dede Barry 45:11
What were the biggest differences? You noted culturally between riding up aurvey in Europe versus the US? Oh, gosh.
Lisa Charlebois 45:17
I mean, the French people are absolute gems. I mean, I couldn’t believe and I think people told me that there’s folks at the side of the road cheering and that, but I didn’t really, I thought, like, oh, sure is gonna be like five people clapping or something. It was beyond like, there was just every corner of this route. And you’re out in the boonies at some point. And there’s, there’s like an old grandma, who’s there clapping at like, one in the morning, I couldn’t get over the support. It was just, it was wild. And I mean, the ability of people to help you out, like I heard the stories where people would be like, Oh, geez, I have to use the bathroom. They like come to my house, like come on in and whatever you need, you know, and giving you food at the side of the road. So folks in California are great, too. Don’t get me wrong. I mean, if you’re in a jam on a Bravais, they’ll they’ll help you out. But it’s just the vibe. I think that’s the game changer in this whole thing.
Dede Barry 46:12
Yeah, that’s awesome. That was definitely our experience with racing to just the amount of kind of moral support alongside the road was amazing. So tell me what was the highlight or best moment of the event? For you?
Lisa Charlebois 46:26
I’d say the best moment was, there’s a town called Susun, which was kind of like around a corner. And it’s like, very dramatic, like you turn a corner. And by the way, these towns are like, straight out of Asterix and Obelix. Like it’s like these crazy medieval looking towns with, like the big towers and whatnot. And so we turn this corner. And it’s like, the whole town came out. Like there was at least a couple 100 people cheering. I’ve never heard people cheer. Well, at least for me on a bike, that’s for sure. Like I’ve never had, you know, I’ve never won a stage of anything in my life. But it felt like you achieve this incredible thing. And so like, we all got goose bumps. So we were just totally freaking out. And I think that’s a memory that will stick with me for a very, very long time.
Dede Barry 47:12
That’s awesome. What was the worst moment on? Well,
Lisa Charlebois 47:15
there was a few. So I’d say there’s some really grindy parts, like the last. And I know it’s only 15 miles or whatnot. But man, those were dark, gross 15 miles from going into Lu dx. So at the end of the first day, and there was this German fella named Martin, which by the way, I don’t know what happened. But every German man that I met was named Martin. So Martin one he was, he was like, oh, man, I’m having a bit of a rough ride. Can I ride with you guys? And that actually, just that small moment, lifted us so much, because you’re like, oh, oh, I’m not alone. You’re suffering too. Oh, that’s cool. Like, let’s all suffer together. And so we didn’t talk. Like it’s not like we had these long, deep conversations, but just knowing that we were together, grinding it out. That really lifted the spirits in kind of a credit moment.
Dede Barry 48:08
Yeah, camaraderie is a good thing. What was the most interesting thing you saw? And like? Did you see any interest in architecture? Like what really stood out for you? Oh,
Lisa Charlebois 48:17
man, there was like, it’s just like, you know, again, as an amateur cyclist, it kind of feels like the Tour de France like all the crazy road art that they would do. It was just like watching the tour. There’d be like hay bales made of people and I’d say like, congratulations writers, or there’d be like these goofy signs, weird looking kind of bike contraption things. Every town went full out for this thing. Like it was like, decorated, there was different towns that would have like all sorts of bands playing and stuff just to like keep the party vibe going. So I think seeing that was really cool. Like seeing the enthusiasm around this event definitely stood out.
Dede Barry 48:59
Were there any interesting characters you met enroute? There was a
Lisa Charlebois 49:03
few I don’t know that it stood up for a good reason. But there’s this thing called Sherman’s neck, which I didn’t even know was a thing. But apparently, on these long events, your neck muscles stopped working. And so all of a sudden, these people are riding and they’re like, head is down, like staring at the ground. So I was one woman. Wow, it was two poles were stuck in her jersey. And a tire tube was tied around her forehead. And she was writing like that. And I was like, oh, no, that’s that’s not great. Oh my god, there was a dude who had like, the classic baguette in his like, pocket. So we got to talk to him and he turned into Tom to pay for us. So that was his new nickname. And I mean, there was just like, all sorts of oh, there were these crazy little bikes that were like, we call them the lowboys but they look like these little rockets. I don’t know what the actual term for them is. But anyways, there was a bunch of those. These like weird looking space bikes. So, yeah, endless things that were definitely unique.
Julie Young 50:05
So Lisa, now that the news is out, and we’ve learned that you are doing PvP again, is there anything you would do differently when you tackle it again?
Lisa Charlebois 50:15
I think so. Well, first off, I’ll try to be way less uptight. Like I think I was so nervous about finishing, finishing in time and, you know, not smelling the roses as much as I normally would on a on a Bravais. I think I think that’s the first thing. Yeah, that I really kind of need to like, sort of relax. Don’t take as much food as I did. Because again, like I was feeding everybody, it was kind of silly. Yeah, I think trying to optimize for a little bit more sleep. I mean, I functioned well, I felt good. But you know, I wouldn’t say no to like, another two or three hours of sleep. I mean, that’d be amazing. So
Julie Young 50:52
it’s interesting when you watch these events, like tore divide, and you see that strategy was sleep, and how some people are really trying to cut corners on it. And then it just seems that it oftentimes comes back to bite them at the end, versus the people that have been kind of more patient and more diligent with their sleep and kind of just stay steady and actually get stronger through the event. Oh, for
Lisa Charlebois 51:12
sure. You know, I think as a randonneur, you kind of have to embrace the sleep deprivation a little bit. Like it’s just the nature of the events, but optimizing to have more sleep on the ride. That’s fantastic. Or at least just more rest. Like if you can’t sleep, just like get off the bike for 20 minutes and eat something and just like sort of take a pause is is really, really helpful.
Julie Young 51:37
Yeah. And so Paris Brest, Paris is every four years, right? Yes. So you have some time and preparation for that next event. So in the meantime, what’s next for you?
Lisa Charlebois 51:46
Oh, man, like now. Now I’m in like, I’m deep in the club, you know, so it was funny, you know, I’m sure you folks could relate. When you come back from a big event, like two years, like I’ve been working towards this thing, and I was kind of bummed out. And so the hunt started right away. So the next event is going to be hopefully I can get in, but it will be the midnight sun randonee in Sweden, so it’s 12 100k per day, and it starts six hours north of Stockholm. And so you’re like way up there. And then you’re gonna go from Uma. Sorry if I’m mispronouncing that, so you go from this little town, you go north, you go through the Arctic Circle, you come back down through Norway, and then you come back to the start. So I’m super stoked. I think it’s gonna be really cool. The other really exciting part is it’s around June 16. So it’s like 23 hours sun. So it’s just gonna be a crazy event. And yeah, I’m really looking forward to it.
Dede Barry 52:45
That sounds amazing. Yeah, I
Lisa Charlebois 52:47
mean, maybe I won’t even take the Dynamo I won’t even need the lights. I don’t know.
Julie Young 52:52
Gravel events appeal to you at all, like the ultra gravel events? And that bikepacking Not too hard.
Lisa Charlebois 52:58
No, yep. No, I think they’re cool. I just think that in the ultra endurance sort of space, like adding gravel on top of it is, that’s like a whole other dimension. You know, like, all the things that can go wrong just on the rides that we do, which by the way, I didn’t have any mechanicals and he crashes like nothing happened, which is amazing. But on a gravel event, like that just goes up exponentially in my eyes. And so hats off to the folks that do the ultra endurance, gravel stuff. I think they’re like, superhuman individuals.
Julie Young 53:32
Yeah, you’re right about that. I mean, in what you do to same thing, but you’re right, like just you add more factors into the mix.
Lisa Charlebois 53:39
Yeah. And I think I’d have to get a lot more confident and like, because, again, Ron randonee Is your self supported, like you have to fix your own stuff. But I’d probably have to learn how to be like a low key bike mechanic to figure out that the stuff that goes wrong on those gravel events Leto just MacGyvering everything. Yeah, I do not have that skill set zero. No, no. So Lisa,
Julie Young 54:01
for our listeners who might be interested in tackling PvP, or another ultra endurance event, can you provide your top three pieces of advice?
Lisa Charlebois 54:11
For sure. So I’m actually going to give my three pieces of advice. And then specifically, I’m going to give two pieces of advice that I got on PvP. So for ultra rides, in general, my advice is train hard, so you can ride easy. So put a lot of effort into the training, I think, be serious with the training, make it fun, but training hard means you get to enjoy the event and not be just dragging yourself through it. I think the next thing is your nutrition. I mean, getting really serious about what you can eat on the bike. I would always advocate for McDonald’s. So if McDonald’s wants to sponsor me, I’m 1,000% into it. So that would be great. But no, I think getting your nutrition right. And finding something that sits well with you is going to go the distance and help you and your confidence even riding. And then I think the last thing is comfort like figuring out that right mix of you and your bike. Right. So is it the right bibs, to saddle to Shami to whatnot, figuring out how you can optimize your bike to feel comfortable? So yeah, so I would say that goes into training, nutrition and comfort. And then on the ride, so specifically for PvP, we met this guy who was from Florida, so we started calling him Florida man. So Florida man said that the ride starts in Ludia tech, which I thought was very good advice. Everyone blew themselves up on day one, all the climbing essentially, is day two. So don’t go crazy. On the first day, the ride starts in Ludia tech. And the last piece of advice I think you could use for any random event is nothing good happens on the bike between two and 4am. So you think, oh, yeah, I’m just gonna ride through the night, this will be fine. Use that time to rest because chances are, that’s where really bad decisions get made. So that’s definitely worth keeping in mind. So there you go. Lots of advice. But it was a lot of writing. So there’s a lot to talk about.
Julie Young 56:10
Yeah, I really like that. Your first piece of advice to training to do it well, and just maximize the experience, because I feel like sometimes people are just so bound and determined, like just take it off their bucket list. And it’s just like, survival, you know, and I think, Gosh, this is kind of sometimes a once in a lifetime opportunity. And like, I just think about all the things you were describing those incredible just moments throughout the ride, like when you guys all at night with your lights, but I mean, just being able to enjoy all that versus just surviving it.
Lisa Charlebois 56:40
Oh, for sure. Like, we train two years to get here. You know, like, we were very dedicated about it so that we could enjoy the experience. I mean, we are in France, we’re like, in this insane bike event with all this history. You just don’t want to be that person. That’s like, sort of suffering. I think we took a lot of gratitude into it too. Like whenever you first started to feel really kind of low. It was like, Oh, wow, I get to be here. I get to do this. This is really remarkable.
Julie Young 57:10
Right? I think that’s a huge one get versus half do. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah. Well, Lisa, thank you so much. And for listeners Lisa’s videos from Paris Brest Paris on on Instagram are amazing. And Lisa’s handle on Instagram is hustle and a half all written out
Dede Barry 57:28
at least so you exude all kinds of good energy. And I really appreciate you joining us today and sharing your experience and your wisdom. And I wish you all the luck in your future endeavors.
Lisa Charlebois 57:39
This is amazing. I really appreciate you asking me here. Thanks, everybody. Yeah, Lisa.
Julie Young 57:43
Thanks. It was great to meet you.
Dede Barry 57:45
That was another episode of Fast Talk Femme. Subscribe toFast Talk Femme wherever you prefer to find your favorite podcasts. Be sure to leave us a rating and review. The thoughts and opinions expressed on Fast Talk Femme are those of the individual. As always, we’d love your feedback, and any thoughts you have on topics or guests that may be of interest for you. Get in touch via social. You can find @fasttalklabs on Twitter and Instagram @fasttalklabs, where you’ll also find all our other episodes. You can also check them out on the web at fasttalklabs.com. For Lisa Charlebois and Julie Young, I’m Dede Barry Thank you for listening!