The Future of Bikes with Dan Cavallari and Kristen Legan

VeloNews contributors Caley Fretz, Trevor Connor, Dan Cavallari, and Kristen Legan go down the rabbit hole to predict the future of bikes and bike tech. Were they right?

The Fast Talk podcast is your source for the best advice and most interesting insight on what it takes to become a better cyclist.

Listen in as VeloNews columnist Trevor Connor and editor Caley Fretz discuss a range of topics, including training, physiology, technology, and more.

What will bikes look like in five years? What will they ride like?

We are joined by VeloNews tech crew Dan Cavallari and Kristen Legan to dig into the future of bikes.

Episode Transcript



Welcome to Fast Talk the velonews podcast and everything you need to know to ride like a pro. Driver.



Are you a Strava? Guy?


Trevor Connor  00:11

Absolutely. Well, you got me into it. swearing cursing you for all you’ve done to me.



I did I knew that you would be in Australia.






you can actually use Strava and your addiction to Strava to your benefit. Because if you head over to health slash velonews Health IQ which is a company that provides life insurance for fit folks like us, you know, cyclists, runners, swimmers, vegans, whatever, whatever makes you fit, you can now use your Strava upload your Strava to health IQ and use that to get a discount on life insurance. I got to do is head to health slash velonews provide for Canadians. No Canadians


Trevor Connor  01:10

Welcome back to another episode of fast dock This is Trevor Connor here with my usual partner in crime Kaylee frets. Hey, Kaylee, I don’t driver. And we have with us our regulars on the tech and Dan cavalry. Hello, Trevor. Hey, Dan, and Kristin leagan. Hey, Trevor, how are you guys doing?



Wonderful. Fantastic.


Trevor Connor  01:30

So our topic today is Kaley, please. Future?





Trevor Connor  01:40

We are asking the question, what is your bicycle gonna look like in five years? Or what are you going to be buying in five years? Mostly because we just want the sound effects? Oh, we’re off to a great start. So I’m doing the introduction this time, because this is probably gonna be my only contribution to this. I’m not interested in the future. I’m interested in where we were 20 years ago.



What do we mean by the future? What are what are what exactly are we talking about today? What’s your bike gonna



look like in five years? And in terms of materials in terms of build? What are the frame tubing going to be made of? What is it going to look like? Are the bikes of today what we’re going to see in five years? My guess is no, I think they’re going to be pretty drastically different.



I mean, if we look at bikes from five years ago, and look at bikes today, they are definitely quite drastically different. more so in the amount of excitement on the road bikes I but still, we’ve seen quite a bit of, of change in generally improvement, although sometimes improvement when it first shows up doesn’t always feel like that. So yeah, that’s that’s the goal of today’s podcast. We want to answer that question, what are bicycles going to look like, in five years? And I think the first place we want to start is Dan’s segmentation theory, trademark on that Dan explained your segmentation theory.



Those are a string of words, that makes me sound smarter than I am. The segmentation theory is we had rode bikes. And then we had different categories of rode bikes, they segmented there was all around, there was Aero, there was durance, all these different bikes that you needed in your quiver to be the quote unquote, racer. Now what we’re seeing is, a lot of those categories are coming back together, we’re starting to see arrow elements in all around bikes, we’re starting to see compliance features and arrow bikes, all of those, those, those bikes that categorically set themselves apart are now starting to blend by borrowing from one category to another. They’re not becoming the same bike. But they are lm they’re, they’re borrowing elements. And that’s because manufacturers are realizing that a lot of these things that work in one segment, work in the other one as well. So now you can make these Aero tubes that aren’t so harsh, and are really lightweight. So we can lend that to the all around category. So my segmentation theory states that and we are now seeing elements from all categories come into one which makes the potential for the quote unquote, cliche, quiver killer,



the quiver killer the bike, the only bike you need, that’s the whole idea. Right, right. I’m going to say straight away that I vehemently disagree with dance segmentation theory, as he always does. Maybe I’m a cynic. Yes, you are. But I, I have seen the industry build these categories as well. One because it gives the sort of the perfect bike for different types of rider. That’s the argument that they would make is if you want an arrow bike, you should get up really, really arrow bike. If you want a very comfortable bike, you should get a very comfortable bike. And those should be two different things. The more cynical reason for creating all these categories is that it allows bike brands to sell more bicycles. And I don’t think that that market pressure is going away. And so I do not think that Dan segmentation theory is correct. Now, I do think that Dan, I think you’re right in that we are We’re gonna see, as you said, like attributes from one type of bike make their way into other types of bikes, I just don’t think that we’re ever going to see a bike manufacturer come out and say, You don’t need to buy our Aero bike and our climbing bike and whatever other bike, you just need this one bike, I don’t think we’re going to see them say that, because why would they have very little incentive to do so? Well,



they already have said it. They said it with the proliferation of endurance bike, this is the one bike you will need, you can race on it, you could ride all day on it. And the the that went out into the market, and people said, No, I can’t, because this is not a race bike. And so you’re seeing what you’re seeing now is endurance bikes changing back more toward race geometry. So those are course corrections that if you look in each category, each category is getting this this course correction, sort of treatment. And as those things come together, a perfect example is the canyon, CF ultimate, and even the BMC teammachine that we just got in, we’re seeing, that’s it, those are both all around bikes, but they both have Aero tube shapes, they can really thin seatstays, those are both elements borrowed from other categories. And we’re seeing those come together in a way that allows you to do almost anything with them. And even with the proliferation of disc brakes, now we’re seeing wider tires, which allows you to get into that endurance category. So quite as I mean, you could honestly make the case that that bike is already here.



So your segmentation theory is basically that the bikes themselves are getting basically better, more versatile. And that negates the need for these different categories. But


Kristen Legan  06:33

there’s always going to be categories, because there’s always going to be marketing. And that’s where we go. So while all of these bikes are going to become more versatile, and you can ride them in all these different kinds of conditions, each segment is going to be better suited for a specific thing. So even though an arrow bike has compliance features, it’s not going to sacrifice those, those arrow bits for the compliance arrow bikes are always going to be faster than an endurance bike, that kind of thing. So maybe they’re going to look a lot more similar to each other. But each one is going to,



I think the categories are going to stick around. And they’re just going to be more focused in certain aspects, right. And I think there’s always room for a specific tool. I mean, we were just at the Colorado classic this past weekend. And when I spoke with kilronan on during stage two, he was riding a disc equipped emonda because it was a climbing stage. Well, disc three was our disk three. Stage three was also a climbing stage, but he was on the methadone, which does not have this brakes. And I said, Well, why not just ride the amount. It’s also kind of tailor made for this course. And he said he wanted the the aero advantage he wanted the stiffness for in case it came down to a sprint finish. So for those who are at the top echelons of the sport, those categories are always going to exist. And they’re always going to want that specific tool. And this always comes back to to the differentiation between what the pros are writing and what we’re writing. If you’re talking about the pros, they have room for the quiver, they have money for the quiver, because they have sponsors. I don’t have any sponsors. I got a lot of hooks in my garage, but I have many sponsors to fill it for.


Kristen Legan  08:06

It also comes down to where you live, you know, like somebody who’s living in Chicago maybe wants an aero bike because you’re doing a lot of flat crates, or you’re riding in groups, and it’s about being fast and flat. And for us here in Boulder, you know, we’ve been really hooked on this whole Ender. Yeah, the endurance bikes that have really big tire gleans, because we have these awesome climbs that you can go and hit a bunch of dirt and then descend down them. And because their geometry is not quite so upright, they’re a good bike for here. So it just kind of depends on where you live. If you’re somebody who just loves to climb mountains every single day and you live in the mountains and go straight up straight down, you’re going to want a different bike for that, too. So while the pros have a whole quiver of bikes that they can choose from most of us are thinking okay, what is going to be the best bike for me on a regular basis.



And all those bikes are getting better. That’s that’s the exact I think that’s the takeaway. Well, I think we’ve proven Dan wrong. So we’re gonna move on from this particular topic,



Kaylee’s theory of cynicism.



We well next we have another theory, we have crystals theory of integration.






I think this is our last theory of the day. Although I could have an E bike theory we can call it maybe like the relator Kristin, your theory of integration. This goes back to what bikes are gonna look like in five years time. We’ve definitely seen this as a trend in the last decade or so. What are we expecting to see 510 years from now?


Kristen Legan  09:27

I think a lot of the bike companies are going to focus more focus less on the frames themselves and start putting together every piece of the bike as their own proprietary equipment. So handlebar stem, you know, a lot of AI companies are making wheels now and so it’s going to be these bikes are going to become these machines where everything on there is specialized not you know Shimano, not and maybe Dr. James are a different different thing, but we’re not going to see quite as the next year we’re going to talk about that. But you know, like there will be things that are you can only use this type of handle bar on this bike, that kind of thing. So I think we’re gonna see bike companies come in and try and take more control over the bike rather than just the frame.



How do we feel about this? So it makes me angry and said,


Trevor Connor  10:11

I remember a couple months ago is that a friend shop in upstate New York, and he’s had his shop for a long time. And he was talking about the issues with this specialization of the frames and the bikes. And this is, I guess, integration. And at one point, he pulled out from the 90s, this manual, I forget the name of the manual, but it’s his big guide for mechanics, it gives you all the information on anything like what size bolts you need for different types of whatever part a book, maybe you use, probably no. But the point that I do want to make is he pulled out the book from the 90s. And it was, I mean, nobody can see, but it was about an inch thick. And then he pulls out the version from now and then it you could have weighed down pretty large objects. With this book, it was enormous. And he was complaining about the fact that anytime somebody comes in with a specialized or a track or a different type of bike, it takes different parts, you have to order all these specialized components. And he was saying, I’m a small shop, this is not a big in a major city type bike shop is just around the corner mom and pop type shop is like, I can’t keep all this stuff in stock, nor can actually keep up and all the different things I need to do with these bikes. And it’s getting really hard.



So that I mean, that’s that’s why I said that it makes me angry inside is because I do this, I mean this stuff it. You okay, maybe theoretically, you end up with a slightly better product, but at what cost at the cost of irritating every single home mechanic on the planet and making everything more expensive. And making it really difficult to like sell things and trade stuff and move stuff between bikes. And it’s just, it rubs me the wrong way. Because it’s so not consumer friendly. It’s it’s replacing consumer friendliness with really very, very marginal performance increases. Well, well, that gets that’s not a bargain that I want to make.



But it but it it brings up Dan’s theory of Scrooge McDuck activity, you got to remember what were the rest of today everything


Trevor Connor  12:06

has to be expressed as a



series of activities.



It’s just a theory, we don’t actually know we’re talking Yeah,



no, this is totally made up. What I think we need to focus here focus on here is when we have these big tech advancements, those almost immediately go to the top. So we’re talking about the top of the line stuff, which maybe will trickle down later. And so when you’re talking about integration, that’s going to go to the top and what what manufacturer wants to sell at the top of the line as an experience. And so if we’re integrating things like handlebars, and stems and seat posts, and things like that, that allows a manufacturer to say to a consumer, I’m not just selling you a bike, I’m selling you the experience, we’re going to make this specifically for you, it comes with a fits fit session to get it just right, and a pro setup and blah, blah, blah. So now for your $12,000 instead of just being handed a bike and say, Okay, go ahead and adjust your stamp, however you want it, they’re going to do it for you. And I think for those high end consumers, that makes a lot of sense. For this, the small mom and pop store who’s maybe going to sell one of those bikes a year, I think that’s less of a burden, because they’re really not going to be dealing with it. those are those are lower price point bikes where that technology isn’t going to reach for a couple years if it reaches it at all, because I think those customers, like you said, are the home mechanics who want to be able to tinker, you know, they are the guys that want to go in and just say I just want my bike to work, I want to be able to adjust it right here. I don’t want to go to California to have a wind tunnel session. But what we’re talking about here with these advancements is top of the line, if you’re gonna if you’re a bike company who wants to integrate everything and bring everything in house, like I think at some point, we’re going to see a proprietary drive train. And when that happens, that’s going to go straight to the top of the line. And that’s going to be the sort of thing where you’re going to you’re going to spend a lot of money to get it and it’s going to be the sort of thing where everything is tailored to you on that bike.



Which brings us to our next topic, whose theory is this. Trevor’s theory of drive trains No, it could be my theory of drive trains Kaylee’s theories drive trains. Do we think we’re going to have a specialized branded drive train in the next five or 10 years? Yes Kaylee’s theories of drive train says Yes. Yes. Yes. Agree. So now what are we talking about? When we say drive train, just make sure everybody we’re talking cranks, derailleurs cassette chain shifters. You know, the stuff that you buy from Shimano ceram, Kevin YOLO. Now, are you going to be buying that from specialized giant trick? Now just to step back a little bit, a big driver behind a lot of this integration is not making your bike better. It’s making your bike cheaper to make for the manufacturer. The reason why manufacturer wants to put their own wheels on the bike is because then they also get the profit from those wheels. The reason why they want to put their own handlebar exactly the same thing. They don’t have to then buy a handlebar from a third party, which costs more money. So if we end up with a bike, that is entirely From one company, yes, it is potentially a better bicycle. But the other thing to keep in mind here is that it is also and this is Kaylee’s retro gretch theory, it is also a cheaper bicycle for that manufacturer to make, which increases profit margins. Granted, we don’t begrudge bike manufacturers from trying to make money. That is the entire idea here. However, if again, if we think that this is going to be a bad thing for consumers, then it’s something that that should be pushed back against. Well, that



begs the question of why we haven’t seen it yet. Because in terms of designing a drive train is not an engineering feat that hasn’t been conquered before. So why haven’t we seen the likes of specialized trek come out with their own Dr.





Kristen Legan  15:40

Yes, all the drive dream companies have? Well, one in particular has a lot of patents around, yes, their products, and it protects them from having these companies come in and just rip off their design. So it makes sense. But it also, you know, holds it back from developing new stuff. But they’ve also, you know, these companies have put in a lot of work to make these things work really well and really efficiently. So it’s gonna be hard to come in and do something, get around those patents and create something totally new. I mean, I think it’s gonna have to be a big jump, it’s not going to be like, oh, here’s your chain in your 11 speed, you know, it’s gonna be something drastically, drastically different if it does come up.



Yeah. I mean, Shimano has Shimano is the company that you’re talking about. Shimano has patents out the wazoo, and the other companies that compete against them are continually trying to get around those ceram also has their own big pile of patents at this point. If you’re coming in as another party, I mean, you know, we’ve seen fshr to come in, we’ve seen rotor trotting come in, it is really, really, really difficult to design a good drive train around those existing patents. So I think Christians, right, I think that if we do see, a, if you see a frame manufacturer start to make its own drive train, it may be in line with something that is somewhat revolutionary. I mean, we’re talking, you know, going back to things like internal gearing, belt drives, shaft drive, things, things like that, you know, we are not engineers that are on this table, we just pay close attention to the industry, these things are all they’re all used in other vehicles, and there is the possibility of designing them properly for a bicycle. The question is, would consumers ever want to? What would be the would consumers be okay? with that sort of monumental shift and change, I actually think


Trevor Connor  17:24

you’re gonna run into a distribution issue or it’s gonna if we went down this road, you’re going to see it dramatically affect your local bike shop or the shops in your town, because, yeah, it’s relatively easy to build your own bike with everything proprietary, but people are gonna have to replace chains people are gonna have to replace cassettes and replace all these parts. bike shops already now have to carry SRAM and Shimano, they’re not gonna want to carry a specialized chain and cassette and you know, all these different like companies different specialized,



we need to pump the brakes here. Say that company again. What I just say, say say that by company, the manufacturer, again,


Trevor Connor  18:07




no the other one specialized, no, the other one Shimano Shimano.



So canadia you Toronto to that.


Trevor Connor  18:18




One, one other consideration with drive trains. Otherwise, I


Trevor Connor  18:24

love the fact that both of you just stopped listening.



Yeah, wait, a moment is looked at me with a big grin. We just heard chemin I Wonder Man, I was like, which, which one of us is gonna make fun of which one of us? It’s gonna be Dan. It’s gonna It was almost me. You got in first.



But quick when it comes to making fun of Trevor? Yes.


Trevor Connor  18:44

But in seriousness, is that an issue where a bike shops gonna have to carry all these different types of chains, all these different types of cassettes if you start having specialized,



potentially, but but also, I mean, patents run out. And so I think a lot of those designs could be up for grabs. And then you could use a Shimano chain with a specialized drive train. And we already see some component mixing, I think, I think that there’s the Christine’s point is valid, that we’re going to see something revolutionary if this does happen. But I think the basic tenets of how to drive train works probably isn’t going to change. I mean, we’re still in the realm of changing cassettes until somebody comes up with something that’s lighter, stronger, faster. And that hasn’t happened. We’ve seen other iterations but nothing’s really usurped the chain and cassette. So you know, there is there is a possibility that patents run out. And so you see, or road elements and maybe electronic drive trains, you see maybe some wires, but you know, there is a way to make change and cassettes of bike shops already have on hand usable. Contrary to that, though, is even if it is a matter of saying yeah, now you need this specialized chain to work with your specialized drive train. Track. Just say track will overdub



tracks trek






even if giant was to make their own drive train, and you had to stock your own giant chain, that’s kind of the the, the cost for a bike shop who who’s already carrying giant might even be lower because they actually have to stock less parts from other companies. So if you’re saying, you know, if if 50% of your floor space is accessories, 40% is bikes, right. And you have to get all those those parts for those bikes, you’re stocking your shop with parts for all these different brands, all these different bikes, all these different drive trains. But if 70% of your shop is a giant shot, all of a sudden, you’ve got an in with giant to say, all right, give me the bikes and stocked me with all the parts I’m going to need and give me a discount. So there is a potential to actually make things cheaper for bike shops, however, that does tend to take away the character of a bike shop. Right so then do our you know,



rabbit hole rabbit hole, we’re avoiding this rabbit hole where I was I think we’ve I think we’ve gone around circles on Drive transit of quick poll, those in the room are we going to see frame manufacturers making drive trains, you know, giant Trek, specialized whoever it is, or we’re gonna see the making drive train sometime in the next decade hand in the air. You can’t see hands on the radio, unfortunately. But we got, I’m putting my hand down, I was just showing you how to buy into their hands in the air.



Thank you for the instruction.



Alright, so we got to have for Kristen and Dan both think that they’re gonna make drive trains? I actually don’t I think that even though we’ve seen companies make their own crank sets and things already specialized does that couple others do that? I don’t think we’re gonna see full drive trains, at least not anytime in the sort of near semi near future.


Trevor Connor  21:52

The conversation about equipment comes up all the time. And quite frequently, you hear people say, well, that’s for pros. But that’s not something I need. So we had Sep coos in the office who’s a pro tour rider, we thought we would ask him what he felt about all this specialization of equipment and what he would like to see with bikes. To get the pro perspective, you might be surprised by his answer. So let’s hear what he has to say.



What What would you like to see five to 10 years down the line as a pro cyclist? Yeah,



I think



maybe hydraulic rim brakes, I guess across the I guess my gear is still,



they still made, they made those ones for time trial bikes, and then strantz Ram, they did make a hydraulic rim brake. I don’t know, I don’t think it was particularly popular. I’m not sure that they’re still making it. So I think that would



maybe deliver the same stopping power and maybe modulation but that would maybe resolve the issues with compatibility for different disc brakes and the rubbing of the the caliper on the disc, which seems like a problem for disc brakes moving forward. From a mechanical standpoint. I think adjustable seat posts to just like micro adjust, I guess. Did FSA make one of those they did Billy or somebody



but that’s the mountain biker coming out?



Yeah. So I don’t know forgot that. Like, I honestly adjust my saddle, like, every week. You know, the tilt of it and everything. So I think if it’s if saddles had a lightweight like micro adjust, just millimeter at a time, that would resolve you know,



I would love to see some Yeah, I would love to see some research into like, you know, so you scoot forward on your saddle if you’re like on the rivet climbing, for example. And then you maybe maybe sit back in the saddle if you’re just cruising along that effectively short like raises and lowers your saddle. Right. I would I would be interested in seeing some research into Kenya, Kenya, Kenya and a whole ride be made more efficient with some, you know, small subtle adjustments. Yeah, maybe. I mean, from what we heard when FSA was making that that adjustable saddle thing. Even Bossa was the first one to use it, and then actually neighbourly used it for a while. was for that exact reason was to allow for a little bit of adjustment, climbing versus descending versus flats, I guess baso It wasn’t like a dropper post, so to speak, it was just a little minor adjustment. So yeah, I like that idea. Because I



forgot, it’s always fiddling around, you know, yeah, it makes it a little bit more streamlined, I


Trevor Connor  24:19

guess. What’s your feeling about? It seems like bikes are becoming more and more specialized now. Meaning every manufacturer is making parts that only work with their bikes, and often with the particular models. How do you guys as opposed in particularly your mechanics feel about that trend? Yeah, I



think I agree with that. I think there’s a lot of proprietary gear and just small parts that make especially the mechanics jobs a little bit tougher if they have to deal with some one off part that only works with x y bike. Yeah, I think from a from a marketing standpoint, it’s you know, maybe cool to have, you know, all specialized or whatever, parts, but I think it for the for the guy that’s working on his bike, you know in his garage that doesn’t want to deal with all that I think it makes it a kind of an issue.


Trevor Connor  25:12

So even at the pro level, do you think the very minor performance enhancements are worth the pain?



No, I don’t think so. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think it depends. I mean, for me, for a guy that’s not going to spend much time out in the wind, you know, I don’t really care much for Aero equipment or anything like that. But I guess I’m just going with aerodynamics as an example. I think that’s what we’re seeing a lot of, but I think there’s, we’re over the course of like a week long stage race, if there’s a bunch of flat stages in a mountain and mountain stage later on, I think you can save a lot of energy through equipment like that. But for me, I don’t really ever think about the little things that’ll make my bike better. It’s more little things that will make my me physically better as a you know, training or racing.



Next topic, Kaylee’s theory of E bikes, bike activity, e bike activity, you know, ebikes we’re talking about every single time I go to Europe, they’re everywhere. They’re, they’re like raditz they are multiplying at the Tour de France this year. You know it becoming this race for a while now in the lab. It just in the last two years we’ve gone from, you know, the people that you see riding up the passes to watch the tour being a bunch of old dudes on old road bikes to like children on a mountain bikes riding up to his Ward, I saw multiple children on a mountain bikes running up these youths, youths, they are everywhere. I mean, ebikes are everywhere in Europe, in the United States, much less so they are very slowly making their way into the US market. But if Europe has anything to go by, we are going to be seeing a lot of these things in the next couple years. And this is the sort of technology that will evolve incredibly rapidly, already is evolving incredibly rapidly. It’s downsizing, they’re getting more powerful, the batteries are getting smaller. This is the sort of thing where in 10 years and you’d like is gonna look almost nothing like any bike looks today. And that means I think Kaylee’s theory of E bikes, we’re gonna see a lot of internal looks like a regular road bike, e bikes in the next decade. You know, we’ve heard about these things being used to cheat. There’s been some allegations of cheating in pro racing, there was just an amateur granfondo rider in Italy who got caught with a motor inside his roadbike. This is the sort of thing that we’re going to, I think, see more and more often as these things continue to downsize. And we get actually truly powerful motors, big batteries that fit inside a regular looking road frame. So Kaylee’s therapy bikes, they’re coming, I think we’re gonna see a lot more of them on the road side, not just commuters not not mountain bikes, I think we’re gonna see he rode bikes a lot. And


Kristen Legan  27:58

I think we have to make a pretty big split. Here, we’re talking about e bikes that you go and you purchase as an E bike, not a race bike that somebody goes and puts a motor in to try and cheat. This is not for racing purposes. Although that could be a problem down the road. If the bikes do become the motor becomes small enough that it’s easy to hide, then then that becomes its own.


Trevor Connor  28:18

That’s what I was going to ask about is, I mean, they they can detect them pretty easily now in the pro races, but what does that mean?



Well, in their current existence,


Trevor Connor  28:28

the way Kaylee’s talking about them, but even even talking about going back to what you’re talking about, what does it mean for those of us who are going to the local group, right, we’re nobodies detecting these things, they get to a point where you can notice and



I think it’s really important to note that Kaylee is completely wrong. Because there’s there’s a difference between mountain bike e bikes and road bike e bikes. And that difference is mountain bikers don’t like to go up Hill Road bikers build their careers on it. And so the competition on the roadside is up. And if you’re plugging a motor in, well, where’s the motor going to be most useful on the UPS? What the heck fun is your road biking if you’re not going under your own power fast uphill, whereas with mountain biking, the idea is to get to the top of the hill, so you can go down it, which is why I think the the ebike craze on the mountain side has taken off in Europe as much as it has on the road side. While I think it’s possible to certainly make that lightweight, fast road bike and have a motor in it. What’s the point? aside to cheat aside from cheating, there really is no point in having it it doesn’t. It doesn’t add to the ride at all. In fact, it detracts from it.



Dan’s wrong. Well, so here’s, here’s an example. Here’s an example. I ride my bike with my wife all the time. I am slightly faster than she is. It would be no great not come on barely. It would be great if you know if she could ride a bike that just gave her 50 watts because then we could ride together and I would be I would get a really good workout and she would get a really good workout. But she’s still you know, you’re still pedaling with an E bike if you only get 50 watts out of it. But we would ride at the same speed. That would be really cool. Why don’t you just add weights to your bike and slow the hell down? are like a parachute, a parachute and be good? I think that’s a good look. No, I do think that there are there are there are reasons for these things to exist. And I will say that, you know, like I said, I think you have to see the craze with your own eyes on the continent to really realize. I mean, but you’ve seen it. Yeah,



I think it makes sense. on the mountain side and commuter side.



I think that’s because the motors in the batteries are still big, though. I think the motors and batteries are still big. So that’s why they’re putting them on commuter bikes and putting them on mountain bikes. The one the roadies, like sleekness Yeah, I think as soon as that stuff is small enough to go inside a road bike without you noticing, it’s going to go inside a road bike without you noticing.



The one time I can see this making sense is if I am a commuter with a really long commute, which I am in fact, it’s it’s about it depending on where I started about 18 or 21 miles door to door for me one way. And so I ride my bike that is a great workout. It’s about an hour in the morning, an hour in the afternoon. It’s great. By Friday, I’m exhausted. And I don’t want to be on some upright ebike I still want to be on my racy aggressive road bike. But I also know that one Hill going out of Boulder, maybe I need a little help there so that I can see it being helpful for But again, it’s still a commuting style assist. So do I necessarily need that in a $10,000? race bike? No, absolutely not.



I think you’ve just proven yourself wrong.



I wasn’t listening to myself. So I don’t really know.


Trevor Connor  31:28

I was about to bring up that example because of I would say over half of the the athletes I coach in Toronto commute to work and they commute to work on their their road bikes. And I’ve had this conversation with every one of them where they go, how do I deal with this? How does it affect my training, they also complain about the fact that often they work in places where they have to wear a coat and tie and they don’t want to get sweaty in the morning. But they like the idea of riding home in the afternoon and getting a good ride. So I think for them, there’d be this huge appeal of let’s turn the motor on in the morning and get to work. And then have my ride and going home.


Kristen Legan  32:04

I might Kaylee on this. I think it’s going to be huge on the road. I think it gets smaller and sleeker. And we’re gonna see way more people. But I also think like, okay, we’re all fairly young and fit here. So we’re all like, I want to go right up big mountains. Right now. Trevor’s probably the fittest. There’s plenty of people out there who you know, riding 910 miles an hour oz is their normal is their norm, and going out for an hour ride. And you can only get 10 miles in the limits where you can ride a lot. But you up that to double that so that you can ride 20 miles an hour for that hour. You just opened a whole new world to those people out on the road Strava users would their heads would explode. Oh, yeah, there’s gonna be some big I mean, there’s controversy, there’s gonna be so many issues with it. Strava is gonna have to, I mean, I don’t envy Strava right now with this coming, because it’s gonna be really hard to figure those things out.



But it’s, they’re gonna have to figure it out well, or that or they’re just not going to figure it out. And it’ll just be yeah, hopefully self policing, and hopefully people won’t, but


Trevor Connor  33:10

Strava is gonna have to require power, heart rate. Yeah. And have algorism say, yeah, there’s no way you could have gone that speed at that power. Right?


Kristen Legan  33:18

My theory about ebikes is that it’s actually going to do cycling. Some good, you know, in the community side of it. Because, Trevor, you were talking about like, Well, how do you know, people aren’t going to show up to your group ride with an E bike on if they’re quiet and small enough? And it’s like, well, you get to know the people you ride with. And you know, like, wow, Joe over here, really, he was pretty slow last week, and all of a sudden, these people I but you know, like, it brings a little bit of that where you have to kind of just know each other, and you have to pay attention. And it’s just not like showing up and being the guy that doesn’t talk to anybody on a on a group ride or other or otherwise you won’t be invited or



well, and I think that we all have, we all have a friend who’s you know, not quite fast enough to do the fast group ride. And we actually would like to have them show up. Yeah, Dan, I you know, I love run with Dan, but it’s real slow. If Dan would show up with it with an E bike slow guy, and we could go real fast. I would appreciate that very much, Dan, if you would just get yourself an E bike. I guess again, rabbit holes there are there are we can we can continue talking about something like ebikes literally all day, I think that the natural inclination of most cyclists is to hate them immediately. And then once you really look at it, and you think about the ways that this does potentially expand use, which is a good thing for all cyclists. And you sort of get over the fact that Yeah, you get over your initial sort of, well, we do this because we want you know, we want to get there under our own power. Once you kind of get over that. I do think that that you can you can view them in a slightly more favorable light. And like I said Kaylee’s original ebike theory feels weird talking about myself in third person. I think they’re going to be everywhere in five to 10 years. I think they’re going to be on the road. I think they’re going to be in commuters and think they’re going to be unfortunately, on mountain bikes. That’s a whole nother kettle of fish.


Trevor Connor  35:05

Time for one more quick break. We know you our listeners like to ride. So support the show and check out health IQ is life insurance rates specifically for cyclists. You can get a quote at health slash Fast Talk. Alright, let’s get back to the show.



We have a couple more things to talk about in today’s show. Next up, what’s after carbon fiber strain gauge steel? Back to the Yes, sir. There is I mean, there is something to be said for that actually, we have been moving back toward metal bikes. I mean, just think about riding here in Boulder. I think the preponderance of metal bikes is increased dramatically in the last five or six years. And part of that is we have a couple of really good local builders, guys like Mr. Chaco mosaic like you know, you show but a group right here and half the people are on mosaics. But there is sort of this this, it’s not really a desire for retro so much as it’s just a desire to sort of go back to something that’s that that’s more customized. That’s exactly what you’re looking for. But regardless, in the racing world, carbon is still King. there doesn’t appear to be anything on the horizon, that will end that rain. But at some point, we will have the next iteration of the race bike, what do we think that’s going to be



follow whatever’s faster than a bike? So airplanes, aerospace, spaceships, and even race cars. What are they using? cyclists. Cycling designers are not stupid. They they borrow from other industries, you’ve seen specialized they coordinate with McLaren often, I mean, McLaren, for those of you who don’t know, I don’t know why you wouldn’t know. But they make cars. So whatever is coming down, the pipe is probably going to come from the aerospace or maybe even from the automobile side, where there’s a lot more money, where there’s a lot more money for development and a lot more, quite frankly, just more engineers working on those problems. I think you’re right, I think carbon is here to stay for the foreseeable future, I think the way carbon is used might change. We’re seeing more and more additives into carbon, that change the way the frame rides, you know, the ride characteristics, things like that makes it you could, in certain cases make it lighter and stronger, which is essentially what everybody’s after, right? lighter, stronger. But for the moment, what’s after carbon, probably some other sort of carbon.



I think you’re right, if we’re if we’re answering our original question, which is what our bicycles gonna look like, in five years, I think five years time, it’s still carbon fiber, there’s nothing currently on our radar that is going to replace carbon fiber within five years in 20 years. That’s a whole nother that’s a whole nother story. I think Dan’s right there, we’re gonna, we’re gonna start seeing more and more additives, we keep talking about specialized, they do a lot RND so it’s not too surprising. They’re using something called Dyneema. Now, which is sort of a it’s like a plastic basically, and this is actually becoming quite common. You add plastics into, into your into your carbon fiber into cover resin, and it sort of increases the plasticity, which makes a carbon fiber less brittle, which means you’re less likely to crack your frame. Next time you crash in a great area, we’re gonna see a lot more of that kind of stuff. Because there are there are downsides to carbon fiber, we all know them every single time you you know, every time every time you land up for a crit, you have a pretty good chance of breaking your carbon frame into in some big pile up. It’s a brittle material, it’s very, very, very strong and getting stronger but it’s still a brittle material. I think that that is what manufacturers are really focusing on fixing at this point in time. They have almost everything else figured out they have the stiffness figured out they have a lightweight figured out we’re gonna see small gains on that front I think we’re gonna see a lot more strength for what we already have in terms of stiffness and weight.


Kristen Legan  38:52

When if any of the UCI regulations go away like the weight limit that kind of thing. I think maybe we’ll start seeing some pretty revolutionary takes on carbon and how to make it lighter right now frame or bikes are limited to being What is it?



How many kilos 6.6 point eight kilos


Kristen Legan  39:09

so and there’s been talk of them taking that regulation away or lowering it in some way and so by doing that by companies could then push the envelope with the weight but until that happens there’s really no real big push because all the bikes are too light anyways. Yeah, I



don’t think the carbon is gonna change much but I do think things like resins could change and I actually well which is sort of one of the same a little bit at work right there the additives but the resin I think people don’t realize how important a resin is to carbon construction and how much actual research goes into what resins work best. For certain applications like the resins that are in your wheel for example, are very different than the ones that are used in your frame. And I mean the resins used in a disc wheel versus a rim brake wheel are also different. And the resins can affect the the brittleness can affect the ride Quality. So I think, you know, are we going to see carbon fibers themselves change? No, probably not. But the things that go into it the resins, things like that, you know, look uses a flax additive to the flax fibers so they’re carbon for compliance. I



think if I’m remembering correctly, vibration absorb vibration. And I mean, there are definitely some i don’t i don’t know anything about whether flax is a dubious claim, but there are some dubious claims to be made about some of the additives as well. And I think that flex, well flex kind of it sends little little warning bells off in my head, because it’s a plant



don’t do anything.



All right, what’s after carbon? Carbon? You know, I really don’t think you need to worry about your carbon fiber bike suddenly being totally old school. It will well will be anyway, because of our next theory. Trevor’s theory of Planned obsolescence. How is that for a segue by the way? Trevor’s theory of Planned obsolescence, Trevor, we’ve all been a little bit grumpy about something rather today. Now is your


Trevor Connor  41:06

chance to shine moment to shine. I’ve been waiting no podcast. So here’s my question or theory or whatever you want to call it. Trevor’s theory. Trevor’s theory. I mean, we have a weight limit on the bike UCI has all sorts of rules on what the bike can look like, basically, with these rules, nothing dramatically revolutionary is going to happen with the bikes, and you’re not going to see all that craziness that we saw in the 90s with the different size wheels and frames that don’t even look like frames. There’s just not that much they can do I feel to really improve on the bikes. And the worst thing, in my opinion for the bike manufacturers is to have a bike that serves every purpose that will last 20 years. That’s at the weight limit. And basically, it’s everything you need, because then you’re not going to buy another bike. So my question is, how much of these tinkerings and new innovations are really not going to make a difference, but they’re to try to convince the buyer, they need a new bike, their bike is getting outdated. And I’ve certainly seen To me, that’s why you keep saying this. We had 10 speed for a couple years now is jump up to 11 speed, and then we’re gonna jump up to 12 and jump up to 13. Because who’s going to be showing the scene out in the group ride with a 11 speed bike when everybody’s on a 13? Speed bike? When Really? Do you need those two extra years?



Yes, you’re



so wrong.



Here we go. You’re wrong. This is offensive to me.


Trevor Connor  42:35

Am I Canadian? This?



Yeah, well, that’s let’s not even go into that. I don’t want to start a war here. I think in terms of obsolescence, whether it’s planned or not, if, if bike manufacturers are constrained by UCI regulations, we are absolutely going to see new bikes that people are going to want to buy. And that that is already apparent, because the UCI has stopped enforcing the three to one rule. So already, we’re seeing bikes come out that could potentially be faster than the bike you have now. And if you’re a crazy racer, and wants to go just slightly faster, you’re going to buy that bike, the 6.8 kilo rule, that’s been rumors floating around about that forever going away. And we may see that and so Okay, so now can we make a frame, that’s 610 grams, 505 grams, you know, there’s always that reason for the racer, to upgrade. So as the bike changes, and as the enforcement rules changes, you’re always going to see a bike that can be improved. The UCI is rule about the bike maintaining, you know, the two triangles, I think that rule is going to stick around. So we’re always going to see a bike that resembles a bike. But I think with with the way tube shapes work, the three to one rule is going to be a big one with the the weight limits. And now the way that frames are constructed for strength. If the 6.8 kilo rule goes away, we’re gonna see a whole new round of super bikes.


Trevor Connor  44:03

So that I agree with that. I guess my question to you is, how many of these innovations I get talked up, and here’s where every single bike company in the world is gonna have me down? Trevor’s address will be posted on my personal





Trevor Connor  44:16

Yeah, but then they have to come up to Canada find me.



Dangerous Canada.


Trevor Connor  44:21

How many of these innovations are just to make the 2018 model look different from the 2017 model?



There’s always some of that, but I think you know, and there’s always that cynical reaction. I mean, it’s to me it’s a Facebook comment argument. It really is. Because yes, of course. Yeah.



That is a burn. Yeah. Why



don’t you use Facebook?



Take that Canada? I do. I think it’s, I think it’s sort of a reflex argument. We all have it. Yes, absolutely. The goal is to sell bikes and you have to differentiate, but does that make? Does that make a advancement vs out of hand? No, of course not. You know, There’s always the argument that says, oh, they’re just trying to get more money out of us, well, you have an option there. Don’t buy it. Right. So, if that’s the way capitalism works, right, if somebody makes something that’s garbage, they’re gonna know right away, because nobody’s gonna buy it.



I think we also we tend to underestimate sort of the iterative nature of some of these advancements, and the fact that they do build on each other. And and, you know, what we see is just, ah, why did you change actual standard again, and it’s just annoying at the time, actually, they’re sort of steps toward something that is significantly better. We’ve seen that a mountain bikes, it, the developments on non bikes has been much more rapid in the last decade than on road bikes, that’s for sure. And so we’ve seen a lot of these things happen on Mount bikes. And at first, at first, a lot of the industry’s highly skeptical, lots, I should say a lot of consumers are highly skeptical of these new changes, and then it becomes the norm. And everyone realizes that actually, yeah, this is a little bit better, we can make the chain stays shorter, we can improve tire clearance, we can, you know, all these different things that actually do make a performance difference, maybe on massive one, maybe not one that is going to make it so that your old bike is you know, completely unraidable to you. But they are they’re iterative steps forward to making a better bicycle. And that’s what we’ve been doing for 100 years. I mean, you know, we we very rarely get big jumps, that when you see them, you’re like, Okay, that I got to have that immediately. Like that is just way better than what I have right now, what we get are these little iterative steps, because that’s the way that engineering works. Most of the time that there’s small improvements that build on each other. And so yeah, you can, you can make a planned obsolescence argument. But I think the better, less cynical argument, and I’m usually a relatively cynical person, but in this particular, this particular area, I do think that it’s just engineers saying, I think I can make this a little bit better, I think I can make that a little bit better. And the unfortunate side effect is that we end up if you want to stay on top of the latest and greatest Yeah, you do get a bike, buy a bike every couple years. But who doesn’t like buying a bike for a couple years. I like new bikes personally.


Trevor Connor  47:04

Let’s step back quickly, because I was never trying to say that the bike companies are just trying to sell a bike and don’t basically let screw the customers. As a matter of fact, when I when I was managing a team, I was told all the guys on the team, you need to be go out and promoting our sponsor, you need to be encouraging this because if people aren’t going to the bike shops to buy bikes, there’s going to be no Pro Cycling, and you’re not going to have a career. So if people don’t buy bikes, this world wouldn’t exist. And I agree with you. It’s nice to get a new bike everyone. So I’ve got so many cracks in mine, it would certainly be nice to have a new frame. But I guess more of what I was saying is it’s more saying to the the listeners or the buyers, do be a bit discerning, yes, some things are better, but you also have to don’t instantly go Okay, the newest greatest thing is necessarily something that I have to have each time, you know, watch where it’s going and see where the trends are going. And as he said it might go through a couple iterations ago, that doesn’t really make a difference. And all of a sudden, they figured out like electronic shipping, I had a friend who had electron shifting in the 90s.



Magnetic tronic. Yeah, didn’t work.


Trevor Connor  48:15

I actually invested time into trying to figure out what the frequency was on it. So that could get a garage door opener open on the same frequency. And when I was racing them, I would just click like, epically. But yeah, no, you have to do these things. But I guess my my retro grouch moment is don’t think every new thing is instantly going to make you faster, you have to have it be a bit discerning.



I think though that segment of the population, though that that sees something new come out, say I have to have that. Now. I think that segment is actually relatively small. I think most people will see it say that looks really cool. I’m going to wait until I have the money which might take me a year and a half to save up. That’s what I mean. I was always like that. I mean, you know, when when double tap came out from scram, I was like, Oh, I want to try that. But it was like a year before I even got my hands on it because I couldn’t afford it. And quite frankly, I had a bike that worked. So there was really no reason. It was cool. I wanted to see it. And I think that’s what most cycling consumers are like, there is a segment that’s like, oh, there’s a new e tap out or there’s a new Dura Ace, I need it now and I’m going to go get it. And those people know what they’re investing in. They know what they’re spending their money on. So I think it’s it does nothing but good things for the industry to have these iterative changes. I mean, it just makes the bike better.


Trevor Connor  49:32

So during this podcast, I mentioned a friend who had that early prototype electronic shifting and a friend who had a bike shop. Well it turns out this is the same friend and it’s somebody who I was lucky enough to have as my first mentor. His name is Glen swan. He was a three time national champion on the bike. In the evening, he runs a very unique bike shop out of his house that I used to love to go to because quite frankly Buy something and then they feed me dinner during the day, Glen works at Cornell University where he runs the machine shop for the engineering department. I’m sure I’m going to get this wrong. But Glen has said he has done everything from design machines that require a forklift to lift them to machines that could carve text into the side of a cell. But his job is to design machines for the engineers at Cornell, both as prototypes. And for research. All this means that Glenn could probably give any engineer a track or specialized a run for their money when it comes to understanding a bike technology and what does make a difference and what doesn’t make a difference. So let’s hear what Glen has to say. We had a conversation about where bike technology is going over the next five years. And we talked about integration and specialization of all these bikes and I had to bring up the comment, it drives bike shops nuts. So quickly before you answer that I am sitting here in Glen shop. And this is one of the most unique shops you’ve ever seen. It’s it’s not the biggest shop, but he has more in stock than the biggest shops I’ve ever seen. And parts that you wouldn’t find anywhere else. If somebody can’t get a bike fixed. At a regular shop, Glen will have the pieces to fix it. And I watched him the other day, take a 30 year old Bianca that had a completely fused bottom bracket and figure out how to get it out. And just when Glen no bike shop in the world would have put that time into it. So you know a lot about bikes, you know a lot about how to fix them. So how do you feel about the directions? The all the bikes are going right now?



Well, it’s kind of cool to have really sleek bikes, and all the modern stuff. But as a mechanic, modern bikes are a horror show, I’d love to talk to some of the protein mechanics who have to regularly change cables on bikes that have all the cables going through the frame. I know that in the triathlon world, many of the athletes simply hand their bike to somebody when the race is over, the bike is put on a truck and driven to wherever the next event is, because you can’t take the bike apart to put it in a travel case, the cables and other things on the bike simply will not allow it to be taken apart and fit into a compact space. I for one, find that the aerodynamic advantage of putting cables in inside the tubes is it’s bogus. The amount of wind resistance that’s created by cables running alongside the frame, particularly when they’re close to wear this totally non aerodynamic moving body with legs and arms is it’s more psychological than truly advantageous. I know that in the days when I was traveling the world masters games, I had the cable housings taped to the outside of my top tube so that I could take things apart for traveling easily. I loved it when we had the old Maverick mechatronic. And there were no wires so I could just take my handlebars off all together, I could use the same cervello frame to race on the track and on the road and just have a different set of handlebars. But I just have to say that the modern bikes with so much internal stuff and so much focus on aerodynamics with these brakes that are tucked away inside the frame or under the bottom bracket that are almost impossible to to work on without going into contortions. It just isn’t worth the effort from the mechanics point of view. I know a rider needs to feel as though his bike is as fast and as techno and as advantageous as it can possibly be. So that he will feel as though it’s worth giving his complete effort that he’s not leaving anything on the table. But I can race against these guys on my old bike with cables out in the open space. And I know I’m certainly not feeling at a disadvantage. I like large diameter tunes I like large diameter bottom brackets, you know you’ll never go back to the old heavy weight, small diameter bottom bracket axles. I think that tapered steerer tubes are the one advantage the one truly advantageous design change in bikes. That greater front end, rigidity and control is quite noticeable the way savings in the bottom bracket area. Okay, I, I recognize those as well though. That’s not wait, that’s critical wait. Those people who really know speed and performance know that the only place that it truly matters to save weight is in your wheels, your rims and tires. So I’m happy to give up a little bit of modern tech and maybe a little bit of weight for greater simplicity so that working on my bike is not such a pain in the neck.


Trevor Connor  55:33

So you mentioned the tapered,



tapered steerer tubes.


Trevor Connor  55:38

there any other recent design changes inventions that you go, that’s a great idea.



In road biking, I can’t really say mountain biking. Okay, I’ll acknowledge that the through axle concept has some advantages. And certainly for mountain biking disc brakes have advantages. I’m not yet completely sold on disc brakes on road bikes. I can’t say that I’ve ever experienced something in road biking, where I felt as though I didn’t have enough brakes. So I’ll leave it open on disc brakes. I have done one road bike, my gravel bike that has disc brakes and I since I’ve got arthritis in my hands, it’s requires a little bit less hand strength to operate the brakes. And my ride to work in the morning, I can hit 52 miles an hour on the hill coming down from my house. And yeah, I can think for a second or two that this is a little bit easier than if I was on my my rim brakes.


Trevor Connor  56:48

Okay, maybe I’ll do an ad.



I was always one who felt as though I didn’t need the latest, the most expensive, the most exotic byte to be able to perform well. I was always faster around the last turn of a criterium on a bike that didn’t cost quite so much. Because I didn’t feel as though I could race on anything that I couldn’t walk away from if there was a crash. And consequently, I wrote good bikes. I wrote very good wheels. But I didn’t ride stuff that was more expensive than I could comfortably walk away from.


Trevor Connor  57:31

I remember asking you though 40 $500 to spend on a bike, what would you recommend a bike and he said 315 hundred dollar bikes,



or spend most of your money on your wheels, and then just get a frame that fits. If I were to have any other comments, I’d be looking at things like in the efforts to save ultimate weight. Some manufacturers are doing carbon fiber dropouts, trying to get rid of virtually every bit of metal in a frame. And wow, I can see gram savings on that. I like bikes. I like wheels, I like parts that will forgive you for some of the weird things that happen in the world, whether it’s dogs running out, Don had an incident a few weeks ago where something happened and it ripped his rear derailleur off essentially ripped it around in his wheel. And his carbon fiber dropouts weren’t quite so able to absorb the ripping off of the derailleur and the derailleur hanger. So it’s very expensive frame was ruined. Whereas had he had a little more strength a metal dropout that the derailleur hanger was screwed into. It might have survived it might have saved him $1,000 or more. So yeah, if you’re racing at the highest levels of the sport, especially if it’s a sponsor who’s buying your bike rather than you having to buy your bike the way most of us masters racers do. I’d rather have a little higher margin of strength, a little more forgiveness for the shit that happens.



It’s a good way to put it.



Well, I think it’s about time for us to wrap it up. So we’re gonna we’re gonna close today’s episode with well just we like to give you guys some take homes, whether we’re talking about physiology, or by tech or whatever. So take homes for today. The question is, what should you do? looking looking at what bikes are gonna look like in five years? What should the average consumer do? looking toward? Who else to start? Maybe maybe one little tip each from each of us.



Live in the now? No, I


Kristen Legan  1:00:04

mean, we can think about all these cool things that are gonna happen in the future. And in five years. And as Dan pointed out earlier, a lot of these big changes happen on the top end, you know, those just the top top bikes. And so for most of us who aren’t going to spend $12,000 on a bike, they’re probably not going to be all that different going in five years. So I’d say just buy the bikes that you’re interested in now that suits your, you know, your ability and what you want to ride right now and be happy with that.



Don’t worry be happy, then



I would say, consider reality, five years from now, who are you going to be? What are you going to be doing? What’s your fitness level? Realistically, what kind of racing Are you going to be doing? And then forget about it, because five years is five years away. And it’s probably two bikes away for you, you know, if you’re, if you’re a racer, maybe one takeaway, and I think Christine’s got a point, take advantage of what’s out now. Unless you want to make the investment of a bike that you’re going to own forever, in which case, you’re going to buy a custom steel or you know, titanium bike that you’re going to ride forever. So quite frankly, I think you should buy a steel frame with D couplers. Stick it in a case like Haley does and go travel Europe, mines tie. Fancy Pants.



Jared, do you have any recommendations,


Trevor Connor  1:01:22

I feel I have to say something very retro grouchy. So I think I’m gonna go with the consider the practical standpoint as well, meaning you might buy this really cool looking bike with all this new tech, but then you have to live with it. So if you buy that giant bike, and there’s no shop anywhere near you that has all these specialized giant parts, what are you going to do when your bike starts breaking down, if you do your own repair, make sure that you have a bike that you know how to fix and you can work with. And I think of myself the first time I tried to do my own internal cable housing for four hours, and nearly will won’t share. Just consider all those stand points the bike brand new and first couple rides might be amazing. But you do have to live with it for a few years and make sure you have all the resources around you to be able to live with it.



And my recommendation, as you’re looking ahead and thinking about what you might buy or when you might buy it. Just Just get a motor call today. No, never. No, I actually might my recommendation is pay attention to product cycles. If you particularly in the drive train world, these things are very predictable when Shimano will have its next day race and then when that technology will end up in Tegra. And when it will end up at 105. These things are all very predictable. They’re essentially on a two to three year cycle. If you count back to when something was last released, you can basically figure out when the next one’s going to be released. I can’t tell you how many people will send me angry notes. Right after we you know, we often go to the launches of some of this new stuff and say, say a new race and and then I’ll get emails from people saying I just bought a bike with the older race. Well, if you didn’t know the new race is coming, that’s because you just weren’t paying very close attention. These things are pretty easy to predict. And if you’re really worried about always having the latest and greatest than just make sure you’re at the you’re at the front end of the product cycle. That was another episode of fast dock. As always, we love your feedback. Email us at Webb letters at competitor Subscribe to Fast Talk on iTunes, Stitcher, SoundCloud and Google Play. Be sure to leave us a rating and a comment. And while you’re there, check out our sister podcast, the velonews podcast, which covers news about the weekend cycling you can hear me and Fred and Spencer share our thoughts on that podcast become a fan of Fast Talk on Slash Phil newsmagazine on slash velonews fest talk is co produced by velonews and Connor coaching for Trevor and Kristen and Dan I am Kaylee frets. Thanks for listening.


Trevor Connor  1:04:02

And quick disclaimer to all you bike companies out there, Dan maybe say all that stuff



and also